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America’s economy risks mother of all meltdowns

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Lilly- J.P. Morgan's investment in Bear Stearns, was probably a back door deal. Somewhat simular to Bank of America's purchase of Countrywide. The Fed's 28-day loan thru J.P. Morgan, to Stearns, was to allow time for the purchase by J.P. Morgan, and an orderly unwinding of positons. Unfortunately, Stearns isn't the only one on the hook, Lehmann Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Citigroup, as well as Bank of America are all in the same boat. The Federal Reserve's action, in regard to Stearns, was initiated to avert the domino effect, from Stearns failure. The question is this- Can the Fed continue to bail out, the others as well? I feel the Fed, has crossed the line in regard to "Moral Hazard", in trying to prop up this house of cards, all the while sacrificing the dollar. The Fed's assumption, that institutions have grown to Big to Fail, and must be bailed out, AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE is a crock of unholy Sh**t. The man on the street can see his dollar buys less and less, THE more $$ the FED prints (INFLATION, inflating the money supply) to keep the U.S financial system from collapsing, the less it is worth, the less it buys. The FED is in no-mans land, a CATCH-22. Without going into all the specifics, he should "under this fiat" money system, let these firms fail, irregardless. Instead, he is more interested in saving the hedge funds, and his buddies on wall street, at the expense of everyone else.

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/249737/

Irregardless, of the problems in the financial sector, housing, SS, Medicare, Medicaide, U.S. debt/defecit. all wrapped around our Peak Oil problem, their is a Perfect Storm brewing- Paul Volcker (former Fed Chairmen), knows this cannot continue, and a crisis is coming ... 🙁

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articl.../9/161923.shtml

As Jim Cramer, often says, watch out for the HOUSE OF PAIN. Because alot of people are going to loose their financial A*s ...

Not really a back-door deal. The cash infusion last week was a back-door deal because the money JP Morgan infused was essentially backed by the U.S. However, this "buy-out" by JP Morgan was an up-front value purchase. Notice how much it will go for... about $2 a share. Not even counting the assets, Morgan will realize that $2 a share just because it will have one less competitor. Rumors of a Bear Stearns merger have been rampant for months. At this value, how could it be passed up? But yes, to back your point... it did have the blessing of the fed (i.e. government approval before the announcement).

Out of the potential fall-outs you mentioned, and if I was a betting man, I would put all my money on Lehman being next.

You are right about the catch-22. Perhaps the fed is choosing the lesser of two evils though? Time will tell. But letting banks fail didn't necessarily work the first time either. Do you have that much faith in the FDIC??? The moral hazard is that other banks in trouble might be encouraged to continue risky behavior because of the prospect of a federal rescue. But the Fed argues that creating potential "moral hazard" is necessary "to minimize the impact on the broader economy." (i.e. choosing the lesser of two evils).

The Fed. is only marginally concerned about inflation right now. They see the alternative as the larger beast. And while inflation expectations are still relatively well contained "you wonder how long that's going to last." That is what National Bureau of Economic Research President Martin Feldstein said on Friday.

And, you are right about rate cuts devaluing the dollar. Many people saw that coming though. It wasn't a coincidence that me and everyone else and their mother bought into the yen and/or euro and purchased commodities late last year.

Also, you have a habit of posting the same links twice... any reason? Or are you stressing the importance of the blog you link to?
 
Not really a back-door deal. The cash infusion last week was a back-door deal because the money JP Morgan infused was essentially backed by the U.S. However, this "buy-out" by JP Morgan was an up-front value purchase. Notice how much it will go for... about $2 a share. Not even counting the assets, Morgan will realize that $2 a share just because it will have one less competitor. Rumors of a Bear Stearns merger have been rampant for months. At this value, how could it be passed up? But yes, to back your point... it did have the blessing of the fed (i.e. government approval before the announcement).

Out of the potential fall-outs you mentioned, and if I was a betting man, I would put all my money on Lehman being next.

You are right about the catch-22. Perhaps the fed is choosing the lesser of two evils though? Time will tell. But letting banks fail didn't necessarily work the first time either. Do you have that much faith in the FDIC??? The moral hazard is that other banks in trouble might be encouraged to continue risky behavior because of the prospect of a federal rescue. But the Fed argues that creating potential "moral hazard" is necessary "to minimize the impact on the broader economy." (i.e. choosing the lesser of two evils).

The Fed. is only marginally concerned about inflation right now. They see the alternative as the larger beast. And while inflation expectations are still relatively well contained "you wonder how long that's going to last." That is what National Bureau of Economic Research President Martin Feldstein said on Friday.

And, you are right about rate cuts devaluing the dollar. Many people saw that coming though. It wasn't a coincidence that me and everyone else and their mother bought into the yen and/or euro and purchased commodities late last year.

Also, you have a habit of posting the same links twice... any reason? Or are you stressing the importance of the blog you link to?

I seriously doubt Bear Stearns is a value purchase, by J.P. Morgan at $2.00/shr, even though it was trading at $30.00/shr. As far as J.P. eliminating competiton, with the buy (Which by the way, is the same thing, that literally happened on Jekyll Island in 1913, with Mr. Morgan and his buddies (Creation of the Federal Reserve). Which, should also give you pause, as to what the Fed will do when Lehmann Brothers goes down?

Do I have faith in the FDIC? The answer is no. The whole system is corrupt (Financial System), and has been corrupt since 1913, The Federal Reserve Act, and removing the U.S. dollar from the Gold/Silver stantard, allowing elasticity of the money supply (re: inflation, and all this other crap attached to this system) There is no sound money, and the only thing standing behind the U.S. dollar is (confidence, of the Full faith and Credit of the United States Government) This, though debt, and expanstion of $$, has allowed all these Billionaires to emerge.

As far as the Fed not being concerend with "inflation", I agree with you, BUT ONLY BECASUE, THE FED IS CREATING IT THROUGH MONEY CREATION. As far as inflation being contained, (I am guessing you mean prices) As far as inflation, and government reporting, (just like job creation), figures are always adjusted after looking in the rearview mirror- Good article on inflation

http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/2005/0624.html

Sorry, you waited until the end of last year to get into commodities, yen, euro etc.. to hedge against the current financial turmoil. To bad you didn't read Fortune Magazine 9/20/2004 which layed all this out
:shock:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/for...81175/index.htm

As far as posting links twice, not. The RGE/Monitor link shows "Recent Posts" to the (right) on the site, with different dates. The link showed March 14th, 2008, which started with Mr. Roubini's 9th Step. If you read the third paragraph, it would have gotten into Bear Stearns. Guess you didn't get that far... So, here it is again for your reading plesure.


http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/249737/

In closing, to understand, why we are in the mess we are in. You have to understand money, it' creation and it's History. I don't like having to repost stuff, that has been posted before. But for you my Dear: Lilly ....., enjoy


http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editoria.../2007/1020.html
 
I seriously doubt Bear Stearns is a value purchase, by J.P. Morgan at $2.00/shr, even though it was trading at $30.00/shr. As far as J.P. eliminating competiton, with the buy (Which by the way, is the same thing, that literally happened on Jekyll Island in 1913, with Mr. Morgan and his buddies (Creation of the Federal Reserve). Which, should also give you pause, as to what the Fed will do when Lehmann Brothers goes down?

Do I have faith in the FDIC? The answer is no. The whole system is corrupt (Financial System), and has been corrupt since 1913, The Federal Reserve Act, and removing the U.S. dollar from the Gold/Silver stantard, allowing elasticity of the money supply (re: inflation, and all this other crap attached to this system) There is no sound money, and the only thing standing behind the U.S. dollar is (confidence, of the Full faith and Credit of the United States Government) This, though debt, and expanstion of $$, has allowed all these Billionaires to emerge.

As far as the Fed not being concerend with "inflation", I agree with you, BUT ONLY BECASUE, THE FED IS CREATING IT THROUGH MONEY CREATION. As far as inflation being contained, (I am guessing you mean prices) As far as inflation, and government reporting, (just like job creation), figures are always adjusted after looking in the rearview mirror-

Not a value buy??? You are crazy. The Fed essentially *gives* about $30 billion to provide non-recourse, back-to-back financing to cover Bear's liabilities and future potential write-offs at a very favorable rate. Thus, with the future unknowns covered, JP Morgan gets the platform, remaining customers, equipments, leases, etc for only $200 million plus. Are you kidding me?!?!? That is one step higher than a fire sale. Even after the $2 announcement, the shares are trading near $4-5... suggesting that even the shareholders know it is worth more than $2.

Surf, did you notice that today commentators are comparing fed actions to those used in '29 and '30. Yes, they even used the D* word!!! Lovely times huh? Are they accurate... or are they creating a self-predicting prophecy? Ask E-Trade what they think of financial hysteria!

I know, I know... you supposedly predicted it. No need to belabor the thought ,or spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince us that you are financially adept or exhaustively attempting to give everyone a history lesson on monetary policy; I am glad that you are prepared. My line of work is recession proof -- actually, it is recession happy... so I am in a different boat. Cheers!

Sorry, you waited until the end of last year to get into commodities, yen, euro etc.. to hedge against the current financial turmoil. To bad you didn't read Fortune Magazine 9/20/2004 which layed all this out

I'm not. Why hedge against "financial turmoil" until you need to. A simple per-trade-hedge is adequate during boom times. I was putting my money in places where it earned more than the commodities from 2004-2007. I am glad I didn't read -- or take the advice of -- the Fortune Magazine article.

The rest of your response is a broken record.
 
Not a value buy??? You are crazy. The Fed essentially *gives* about $30 billion to provide non-recourse, back-to-back financing to cover Bear's liabilities and future potential write-offs at a very favorable rate. Thus, with the future unknowns covered, JP Morgan gets the platform, remaining customers, equipments, leases, etc for only $200 million plus. Are you kidding me?!?!? That is one step higher than a fire sale. Even after the $2 announcement, the shares are trading near $4-5... suggesting that even the shareholders know it is worth more than $2.

Surf, did you notice that today commentators are comparing fed actions to those used in '29 and '30. Yes, they even used the D* word!!! Lovely times huh? Are they accurate... or are they creating a self-predicting prophecy? Ask E-Trade what they think of financial hysteria!

I know, I know... you supposedly predicted it. No need to belabor the thought ,or spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince us that you are financially adept or exhaustively attempting to give everyone a history lesson on monetary policy; I am glad that you are prepared. My line of work is recession proof -- actually, it is recession happy... so I am in a different boat. Cheers!



I'm not. Why hedge against "financial turmoil" until you need to. A simple per-trade-hedge is adequate during boom times. I was putting my money in places where it earned more than the commodities from 2004-2007. I am glad I didn't read -- or take the advice of -- the Fortune Magazine article.

The rest of your response is a broken record.

In closing out our exchange in points of view on this subject- I would like to add a few other items:

1.) I believe secret societies exsist.
2.) I believe, Manipulation of the money supply/ Gold, & the economy-
3.) And.. The coming of a Global One World Government- To this end, the U.S. must fall. LQQK around, at all the policies implemented, that are achieving that goal

Finally, I am glad you have a secure job as a Bartender, and many people will be visitng, soaking their sorrows, for the financial calamity that is being bestowed upon us/them. Because certainly, The Rain certainly falls on the "just" as well as the "unjust", and the innocent in all of this, will surely fell much pain- :down:
 
I seriously doubt Bear Stearns is a value purchase, by J.P. Morgan at $2.00/shr, even though it was trading at $30.00/shr. As far as J.P. eliminating competiton, with the buy (Which by the way, is the same thing, that literally happened on Jekyll Island in 1913, with Mr. Morgan and his buddies (Creation of the Federal Reserve).


Now it appears that even JP Morgan disagrees with you, and that it was BY FAR a value buy. Recognizing the value of Bear Stearns, and in an attempt to satisfy angry Bear investors, JP Morgan has raised it offer to $10 a share.

The House of Morgan quintuples its offer
 
Any of you guys ever see the video series called the "Money Masters?"

I saw it a few years back and it was very good.


Link
 
Any of you guys ever see the video series called the "Money Masters?"

I saw it a few years back and it was very good.


Link


Have not seen the video. But if you like that, you would probably like one of the many publications by Milton Friedman, particularly 'Free to Choose.' I think it was televised (and on video) too.
 
'One World Order' or a 'New World Order'

Six of one, half dozen of the other....... <_<
 
Have not seen the video. But if you like that, you would probably like one of the many publications by Milton Friedman, particularly 'Free to Choose.' I think it was televised (and on video) too.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lily,

What did you think of...."WALL STREET"...w/Michael Douglas ??? :shock:


I mean......"Gordon GEKKO",........, says it ALL ! 😛h34r: 😛h34r:
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lily,

What did you think of...."WALL STREET"...w/Michael Douglas ??? :shock:


I mean......"Gordon GEKKO",........, says it ALL ! 😛h34r: 😛h34r:


It is on my "Top Ten Movies" of all time list. It is not everyday when a director can create a film in which the villain is idolized by every young member of a professional industry for a better part of two decades.

Create your own conclusions on whether the film was a minor catalyst for the inherent greed that caused our latest financial debacle, or if it was simply a decent review of the Ivan Boesky/Greed-is-Good culture in global Wall Street.
 
Now it appears that even JP Morgan disagrees with you, and that it was BY FAR a value buy. Recognizing the value of Bear Stearns, and in an attempt to satisfy angry Bear investors, JP Morgan has raised it offer to $10 a share.

The House of Morgan quintuples its offer

Dear: Golden-Gynoecium -

Seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given, knock and it shall be opened unto you-


Imagine yourself taking one of your family’s most valuable heirlooms into a professional appraiser and having them offer you an expert opinion of, say, “X.â€

Believing the professional evaluator, you contract with him to sell your asset and it sells to the evaluator’s relative for 100% of “X.â€

Now imagine that the ‘same buyer’ of your asset turns around and gets a “new†professional opinion of value for your former asset, the very next week, for 5X.

Would such a bizarre scenario – if it were to actually occur – not raise some serious questions regarding motives along with cat-calls for a thorough investigation?

One week ago Sunday the Federal Reserve forced Bear Stearns into a shot-gun marriage with J.P. Morgan Chase [an institution related to the Fed], whereby J.P. Morgan Chase was to acquire Bear for $2 per share.

Today, exactly one week later, reports are surfacing that J.P. Morgan Chase is in talks to raise its bid for Bear Stearns five fold to $10 per share:

JPMorgan in talks to raise Bear Stearns bid
Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:07am EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - JPMorgan Chase & Co is in talks to raise its takeover offer for Bear Stearns Cos to about $10 a share in an effort to appease Bear shareholders angry with the cut-rate deal, a person briefed on the discussions said on Monday…

Under these circumstances, how can anyone seriously accept any judgment or opinion of the Federal Reserve as an honest or ethical arbiter?

The original Bear takeover agreement was forged with the support of federal regulators, and the U.S. Federal Reserve is balking at the higher price, The New York Times said, citing people involved in the talks.

The newspaper said the Fed originally directed J.P. Morgan to pay no more than $2 per share to assure that it would not appear that Bear shareholders were being rescued.

By these metrics, will Bear be valued next week at $50 or $0 per share? Better yet, is the DOW properly valued at 12,000, or does 2,000 or perhaps 60,000 sound a little closer to the mark?

Do these grotesque proceedings, from start to finish, not reek of a snake-oil-swindling carnie act?

What has become abundantly clear is at the root of Bear’s bailout/rescue is the state of the global derivatives complex:

Fed's rescue halted a derivatives Chernobyl
We may never know for sure whether the Federal Reserve's rescue of Bear Stearns averted a seizure of the $516 trillion derivatives system, the ultimate Chernobyl for global finance.

"If the Fed had not stepped in, we would have had pandemonium," said James Melcher, president of the New York hedge fund Balestra Capital.

……Bear Stearns had total positions of $13.4 trillion. This is greater than the US national income, or equal to a quarter of world GDP - at least in "notional" terms. The contracts were described as "swaps", "swaptions", "caps", "collars" and "floors". This heady edifice of new-fangled instruments was built on an asset base of $80bn at best.

The Brutal Reality

What we are witnessing, through the now-failing obscene use of derivatives, is the entrails of the prolonging of failed fiat money system which began its decay when the world was forced onto a pure fiat money system with President Nixon’s revocation of the Gold Standard in 1971.

Borrowing words from my esteemed colleague Rhody,

ALL FIAT CURRENCIES COLLAPSE, because the debt that they represent grows exponentially, eventually overwhelming the ability of any economy to even pay the interest on the debt. This is why interest rates are declining towards zero. Eventually, even interest rates of .1% will be too high to pay and the defaults will implode the financial system. Notice that I did not say the defaults would implode the economy. That will still stagger on, because that is operated by people whole trade real goods and services. It's the financial system that will disappear and be replaced by honest money.

Clearly the system is collapsing now. Last week’s drop of 12% in gold is a sign of instability in the paper system, not a vote of non-confidence in real money. The sell off was contrived by the monetary interests and I expect it will have unintended consequences. For example, taking gold down, means that the perceived value of the US dollar and other paper currencies are raised. But, the problem with taking the price of gold down by raising margin hugely is that the powers that be may have forced any number of hedge funds [or dealers that behave like hedge funds] that were long gold and silver towards bankruptcy.

To save themselves these hedge funds may be forced to sell CDO's and other derivatives that are already illiquid. The values of these derivatives which had been in limbo will be exposed as worthless, and that in turn may expose banks who hold this stuff on their balance sheet as visibly insolvent. It is the rule of unintended consequences biting the manipulators on the butt. Nobody out there understands the complexity of the derivative markets. It's an immense financial domino system, and the plunge protection team may have just tipped dozens of dominoes over. Their collapse is doing to spread and widen until it reaches right back onto the balance sheets of the money center banks. The Fed is going to have to monetize trillions of this crap to stop the dominoes of failure and that's going to kill the dollar and the rest of the fake money out there.

All fiat money is debt. Debt charges a percentage interest rate. All percentage rates generate exponential increase. In time even the smallest percentage interest will exceed the entire economy's ability to pay.

In our world banks create the money we use out of thin air and charge us 5% per year to use it. Eventually the banks end up owning everything and the people are universally bankrupt. It's a form of slavery.

Ownership of physical precious metal helps to preserve purchasing power and has historically insulated investors from the ravages of currency debasement outlined above.


Wishing you a pleasant and Stamen evening. 😛
 
Dear: Golden-Gynoecium -

Seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given, knock and it shall be opened unto you-


Imagine yourself taking one of your family’s most valuable heirlooms into a professional appraiser and having them offer you an expert opinion of, say, “X.â€￾

. . . (Edited for unnecessary length and questionable relevance)

That was the longest, forced posting I have ever read that basically says nothing but: American Air Surf [sic] was wrong.

Despite your reference to the Holy Scriptures, I certainly was not seeking your superfluous diatribe about heirloom appraisals; but thanks for the overview of "Rhody's" words . . . that clearly no one reads.

(BTW, your posts are much easier to read when you simply cut and paste from a website - -i.e. not as many "typos"; thanks for doing that!)

Love,

Your golden, bartending, gynoecium
 
That was the longest, forced posting I have ever read that basically says nothing but: American Air Surf [sic] was wrong.

Despite your reference to the Holy Scriptures, I certainly was not seeking your superfluous diatribe about heirloom appraisals; but thanks for the overview of "Rhody's" words . . . that clearly no one reads.

(BTW, your posts are much easier to read when you simply cut and paste from a website - -i.e. not as many "typos"; thanks for doing that!)

Love,

Your golden, bartending, gynoecium

"That was the longest, forced posting I have ever read" Your words-, Then you must have read the post then, and "IF" you read the post, it also discussed "derivatives". I am sure you understand them, becasue even Mr. Berneke, doesn't, understand thier complexities. They are the root, of the financial problems, in the Financial sector. And.., it also explained where the Fed stood on the $2.00/shr buyout "engineered" by the Fed, for the take over by J.P. Morgan. I am sure you also "read", about Mr. Berneke's concern, in relation to a bail out. Hence, his concern over being back-doored, on the $10.00/shr price, over the $2.00/shr he recommended, for the J.P. buyout. Hmmm, seems somebody wasn't happy. Hmm, who could that be? (CEO's, Executives, (Stock Options/underwater)? and...Stearn's shareholders upset. More smoke & mirrors BS. If you didn't understand the post. My advice is you start drinking/serving Orange juice, in stead of the brain rioting "other" stuff.

Their is another Biblical quote, I am sure a college educated person like you would take heed to-

"It is best to be learned, but with all you learning, Gain Wisdon and Understanding"- I am sure you can appreciate that, and all that you "read". It is also unfortunate, our Government Institutions, can't follow it either-

Regards,

Your everloving- Stamen B)
 
"That was the longest, forced posting I have ever read" Your words-, Then you must have read the post then, and "IF" you read the post, it also discussed "derivatives". I am sure you understand them, becasue even Mr. Berneke, doesn't, understand thier complexities. They are the root, of the financial problems, in the Financial sector. And.., it also explained where the Fed stood on the $2.00/shr buyout "engineered" by the Fed, for the take over by J.P. Morgan. I am sure you also "read", about Mr. Berneke's concern, in relation to a bail out. Hence, his concern over being back-doored, on the $10.00/shr price, over the $2.00/shr he recommended, for the J.P. buyout. Hmmm, seems somebody wasn't happy. Hmm, who could that be? (CEO's, Executives, (Stock Options/underwater)? and...Stearn's shareholders upset. More smoke & mirrors BS. If you didn't understand the post. My advice is you start drinking/serving Orange juice, in stead of the brain rioting "other" stuff.

Their is another Biblical quote, I am sure a college educated person like you would take heed to-

"It is best to be learned, but with all you learning, Gain Wisdon and Understanding"- I am sure you can appreciate that, and all that you "read". It is also unfortunate, our Government Institutions, can't follow it either-

Regards,

Your everloving- Stamen B)

You should stick with cutting and pasting things from the web.
 

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