This Says It All! "how To Bust A Union!"

[Nightwatch]

nw, "so by your actions of promoting AMFA onto the floor at AA I would say you're the union buster, not I."

You really must be old and feeble. I support my craft & profession. That means fighting against lies and more lies spewed by the twu and their boot lickers. The twu is the real union buster. Let's see, the twu claimed we took, (little accepted) concessions to save jobs. Now, these jobs are going to be laid off and we have the added insult of the concessions. Close your eyes tighter, reality will stay away that way. Keep posting, it will only show how bad the twu is with people like you supporting them. By the way, was your job saved with the concessions only to be laid off with the new lay offs?

The twu... where we do what the company says.

[post="198086"][/post]​

My job is safe for now, and I do appreciate the fact that you care. I am old, perhaps a bit feeble, but I still recognize a self appointed evangelistic wannbe savior when I see one.

You still beating the same old drum that BK would have been better than concessions? I'd have thought you'd have been embarrassed after the court history, of late, with airlines in BK. Guess that shows your intelligence level.

Concessions were a temporary fix, a one shot item. I do not see the floor ever giving a dime more. A lot has changed in the posture of the company since the vote on concessions. It is not near the "state of the union" that it was. Concessions now will not save AA.

By the way, concessions saved jobs. Your vote to strip my fellow brothers of their seniority lost their jobs, my wish is to someday allow you 1 year for every 6 years you have, then you'd realize justice in a union.

 

[local 12 proud]

My job is safe for now, and I do appreciate the fact that you care. I am old, perhaps a bit feeble, but I still recognize a self appointed evangelistic wannbe savior when I see one.

You still beating the same old drum that BK would have been better than concessions? I'd have thought you'd have been embarrassed after the court history, of late, with airlines in BK. Guess that shows your intelligence level.

Concessions were a temporary fix, a one shot item. I do not see the floor ever giving a dime more. A lot has changed in the posture of the company since the vote on concessions. It is not near the "state of the union" that it was. Concessions now will not save AA.

By the way, concessions saved jobs. Your vote to strip my fellow brothers of their seniority lost their jobs, my wish is to someday allow you 1 year for every 6 years you have, then you'd realize justice in a union.

[post="198130"][/post]​

IT's OVER! your industrial unions have time and time again bent over and given the company anything they asked for all in the name of dues preservation. concessions for jobs? your an idiot, what did that get us? MORE CONCESSIONS and LAYOFFS. guess what that crap at USAIR and UNITED is coming here very shortly you have managed to destroy a once proud profession. i can only hope you lose your pension and social security and live in a travel trailer on food stamps and your wife leaves your sorry a$$ for some management guy

 

[Bob Owens]

Nightwatch,Nov 5 2004, 04:38 AM]
My job is safe for now, and I do appreciate the fact that you care.

???

I am old, perhaps a bit feeble,

Ok, now I understand.

but I still recognize a self appointed evangelistic wannbe savior when I see one.

You still beating the same old drum that BK would have been better than concessions? I'd have thought you'd have been embarrassed after the court history, of late, with airlines in BK. Guess that shows your intelligence level.

Well if the unions had stuck together in the first place then maybe things would have never gone this far. Better than BK? well with over $20 billion in debt who says we many not end up there anyway? Only now the bar for concessions and paycuts is already 25% lower than it would have been last year. If we had joined the ranks of USAIR, and UAL, thereby sending over half of the industry's capacity into BK then what? Suppose none of us agreed to concessions and said that if any contract is abrogated that we all would walk? What would they do? Injunctions? Could injuctions force you to drive to work? Would they have simply closed all three airlines at once? No it would have been a long overdue battle between labor and the corprate controlled government. But that means that all the weak pimp union leaders would have maybe had to spend a few nights in jail and expended a huge amount of the Union treasuries on fighting for the members instead of fighting against the members and perks for themselves.

Concessions were a temporary fix, a one shot item.

Where did you get that idea from? The fact that these are in place to 2009? Or the multiple rounds of "temporary" -until they come back for more- rounds of concessions you gave at TWA?

I do not see the floor ever giving a dime more.

Well did you see it prior to March of 2003? Did you see all those years at TWA? You are talking tough but your track record reveals something else.

A lot has changed in the posture of the company since the vote on concessions. It is not near the "state of the union" that it was. Concessions now will not save AA.

By the way, concessions saved jobs.

I'll consider your second sentence as cause for your apparent delusion.

Your vote to strip my fellow brothers of their seniority lost their jobs, my wish is to someday allow you 1 year for every 6 years you have, then you'd realize justice in a union.

Welcome to the TWU! By the way how well would have granting you full seniority, rewarding you after years of concessions that helped drag the industry down, have helped realize justice to the thousands of EAL workers, who lost all their seniority, pensions, vacation, sick time etc because of their refusal to lower the standard? They fought the good fight, better than any of the rest of us, yet you feel slighted that you were not rewarded with the ability, after years of concessions to bump them out into the street?

 

[Nightwatch]

Was EAL merged or bought out? Comparing TWA w/ EAL is up to speed for you I guess. I walked picket at MCI w/ EAL for months, did you? I helped organize the pickets and set up times for volunteers, did you? Were our scenerios the same, no, but you go right ahead and compare the two.

Welcome to the TWU? Welcome to a workforce that heard of unionism, but never practiced it.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Welcome to the TWU? Welcome to a workforce that heard of unionism, but never practiced it.

[post="198333"][/post]​

So it's the memberships fault, even though the deal cutting at the leaderships positions is what caused the membership to become what they are. When the twu leadership figures out what the word unionism means and preaches it, then and only then will the membership become true unionist. After begging our appointed leaders for years to start being unionists, we have moved on and will replace this company owned organization.

BTW... What kind of union leader would fly on a struck carrier? Hint, ask John Orlando. :down: At least the membership was smart enough not to fly.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

nw,

"Concessions were a temporary fix, a one shot item. I do not see the floor ever giving a dime more. A lot has changed in the posture of the company since the vote on concessions. It is not near the "state of the union" that it was. Concessions now will not save AA.

By the way, concessions saved jobs. Your vote to strip my fellow brothers of their seniority lost their jobs, my wish is to someday allow you 1 year for every 6 years you have, then you'd realize justice in a union."

Glad you admit to being a bit feeble. That explains your lack of reasoning and understanding facts as they happen. You don't ever seeing the floor giving an extra dime? That's a laugh. It doesn't matter what the floor wants. It is what jim little is told to give to the company. Remember the courts prooved the international owns the contract not the membership. And trust me, the twu will give up heads to save the dues. SAN is looking at losing our wash rack. That's nine hard working people who have no recourse to save their jobs here because of the twu's lousy contract language. Boy, those concessions sure are saving jobs. NOT!

As for my vote on seniority, I do not remember seeing a ballot on how I felt. You want to place blame? Blame your lame iam, they knew what would happen after AA bought TWA. THEY sold you out. NOT twu members. Call up Kasher and complain to him about the retarded equation used to determine your seniority outside of MCI & STL.

You could allow me any combination of trading years of seniority but you would have to step out from behind your curtain of shadows and identify yourself. And everyone knows you are too much of a coward to identify yourself.

The twu... where we will sacrifice wage & benefits to save jobs. ONLY TO LET THEM BE LAID OFF LATER! h34r:

 

[Buck]

Concessions were a temporary fix, a one shot item.

Then the TWU has been temporarily fixing the airline industry for over twenty years.....

 

[Raptor]

Highlights of what's in store for United and probably AA soon, it will happen no matter what Union you are in.
I know Delle said that he would never give anything more than a loan not a gift but I think this concession at United will be a gift not a loan, unfortunatly there is nothing that anyone can do to stop it.
The Mechanics at United can fight but they will lose in the end, the company's have the ball in their court as they are the ones with the cash, it's their game all we can do is play it as best we can.
get ready boys are turn in the barrel is coming.


- 9% pay cut Jan. 1

- ability to take another 4% of pay for six months after exiting from bankruptcy if needed.

- Holidays go from 10 to 6, with straight time for holidays worked. No more 2.5 times standard rate of pay.

- Vacation capped at 20 days after 10 years. I'm sure people will love that they didn't change the rate of accrual, beginning your 5th year you get 15 days.

- Sick time paid at 70% of standard pay, must use sick time for FMLA.

- Right to furlough without regard to their seniority date.

- Heavy maintenance may be performed at non-US locations.

- Pension deleted, new DC plan outlined which will replace Success Sharing

- Medical: PPO will be 20% of company cost, HMO will be 30% of company cost.

- Eliminate life insurance for employees and retirees.

 

[Hopeful]

Highlights of what's in store for United and probably AA soon, it will happen no matter what Union you are in.
I know Delle said that he would never give anything more than a loan not a gift but I think this concession at United will be a gift not a loan, unfortunatly there is nothing that anyone can do to stop it.
The Mechanics at United can fight but they will lose in the end, the company's have the ball in their court as they are the ones with the cash, it's their game all we can do is play it as best we can.
get ready boys are turn in the barrel is coming.
- 9% pay cut Jan. 1

- ability to take another 4% of pay for six months after exiting from bankruptcy if needed.

- Holidays go from 10 to 6, with straight time for holidays worked. No more 2.5 times standard rate of pay.

- Vacation capped at 20 days after 10 years. I'm sure people will love that they didn't change the rate of accrual, beginning your 5th year you get 15 days.

- Sick time paid at 70% of standard pay, must use sick time for FMLA.

- Right to furlough without regard to their seniority date.

- Heavy maintenance may be performed at non-US locations.

- Pension deleted, new DC plan outlined which will replace Success Sharing

- Medical: PPO will be 20% of company cost, HMO will be 30% of company cost.

- Eliminate life insurance for employees and retirees.

[post="198393"][/post]​

There is something the UAL mechanics can do as well as the USAIR people:

SHUT THOSE TWO AIRLINES THE &*#* DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did anyone learn anything from Eastern Airlines? This industry is finished for the airline worker. Shut em down and tell em thanks for the memories!

 

[Raptor]

I agree Hopefull that is really all you can do.
I for one am looking forward to getting out.

 

[Decision 2004]

I agree Hopefull that is really all you can do.
I for one am looking forward to getting out.

[post="198490"][/post]​

Maybe we should just get some TWU t-shirts that threaten an industry wide shut down and "scare" the industry management into leaving us alone.

Yeah, that's it, another TWU t-shirt and a slogan, that'll fix it.

 

[aafsc]

Was EAL merged or bought out? Comparing TWA w/ EAL is up to speed for you I guess. I walked picket at MCI w/ EAL for months, did you? I helped organize the pickets and set up times for volunteers, did you? Were our scenerios the same, no, but you go right ahead and compare the two.

Welcome to the TWU? Welcome to a workforce that heard of unionism, but never practiced it.

[post="198333"][/post]​

The EAL and TWA were pretty much the same except for the employees. Both were in bankruptcy when they had their assets purchased. The only difference was the percentage of assets purchased. AA purchased about 25% of EALs assets (MIA and Latin America) where they purchased 90% of TWAs (STL, MCI , aircraft etc.)
Of course the the TWA employees got a heck of a lot better deal than the EAL employees did.

 

[Nightwatch]

I agree Hopefull that is really all you can do.
I for one am looking forward to getting out.

Why not coordinate a total shutdown of all airlines.

Also I believe I saw a while back where it was predicted that Delle would be forced to change his stance on concessions. AMFA is no different than others, they'll bend as the economy delegates.

 

[Decision 2004]

Why not coordinate a total shutdown of all airlines.

Also I believe I saw a while back where it was predicted that Delle would be forced to change his stance on concessions. AMFA is no different than others, they'll bend as the economy delegates.

[post="198515"][/post]​

Do you think Delle will "bend" without membership ratification?

Do you think Delle will "bend" without some snapback trigger in place?

Do you think Delle will "bend" without 3200 members getting PIN's?

Do you think Delle will "bend" if it is discovered 46 Management folks are hiding Golden Parachutes?

 

[Nightwatch]

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes