American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[title 2]

Yes, and we have many that will buy into it. Then when they read the fine print will cry the union screwed them. How some people are actually able to finction in the real world is amazing.

Rule no 1 YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID

 

[WeAAsles]

The company's strategy,

Delay, delay, delay, to frustrate as many as possible into voting for any crappie POS that has smoke and mirror $ signs in it.

Devide and conquer,

Ambiguous contractual language that you could drive a 777 through.

Include a vote buying early out package to guarantee as many YES voters as possible vote for any thing put in front of them regardless of ambiguous contractual language and bad articles (401k, medical costs, scope, ect...) as long as they "think" they are getting a buyout. Why would anyone selling thier yes vote to the company care about anything else but the package?

The company is using calculus to plan their strategy and we are using arithmetic to counter them.

If we fall for this chit, we deserve the screwing we're going to get.

Actually kind of interesting how I’m finding more people who are at least being vocal about not caring about any future here since they’re waiting for a package then the young kids who would like that $3000.

Once you break down the $3000 for them and what it means with all of that ambiguous language over the long term, they don’t seem as interested in that 3 Grand as when the conversation started.

$3000 divided by a 5 year deal for a full timer comes out to .10 cents per hour before Taxes.

 

[Vortilon]

the assoc. already apparently compromised on profit sharing. this is what the company told us...and changing to a formula that would increase our potential payments was never offered by our stingy company.

all i hear about is scope, but as laa, i can't believe that money isn't being brought up or that flag doesn't seem to be flown by the twu part the assoc.

the company gave a very nice sweetener to AMTs, matching southwest's recent contract and the company wants to compensate all assoc. lus a further $3k and an additional year on their superior/cheaper insurance for the pain of coming over to my insurance.

so, where is the sweetener for laa FSC?????

3% more than delta on DOS (delta not even highest paid fleet) and 2% a year over the duration is totally ridiculous/unacceptable if the profit sharing formula isn't changed. the ticket agents have gotten and will get 2.5% increases the last 2 years of their deal.

when some in the assoc. say we are 'close', that is unsettling to me. the company will no doubt get all on laa insurance, change the c/c language and more AMT outsourcing and some fleet outsourcing, we deserve more than a bag of shells in exchange from the company...the company getting hardcore concessions from us after raking in billions the past 6 years.

i'm not familiar with title 2 outsourcing and/or if title 2 & stores get raises with us, or similar to title 1 AMT.

some AMTs i know, are already itching to vote after the company offered the AMTs a very nice piece of candy. i really don't blame them..

They might like the SWA match for pay, but that's about it. The language wasn't complete. Where's the retro? A signing bonus of $3K might be fine for a new hire part timer, but for anybody else, a complete insult.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Wonder, if you really believe the unions “Force Majeur” BS you are hopelessly brainwashed or just a shill for the association.

That language is in every labor and most other legal contracts ever written and will continue to be. It is a non factor except in extreme and rare situation, it's purpose, to save companies and jobs. The union throwing that out as a red meat talking point just proves how dumb they think their members are.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wonder, if you really believe the unions “Force Majeur” BS you are hopelessly brainwashed or just a shill for the association.

That language is in every labor and most other legal contracts ever written and will continue to be. It is a non factor except in extreme and rare situation, it's purpose, to save companies and jobs. The union throwing that out as a red meat talking point just proves how dumb they think their members are.

Do you pride yourself on not knowing what the **** you’re talking about?

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/09/...&gwh=DAE3355B1ADCCC2A7CACC481E3EECF1E&gwt=pay

 

[UPNAWAY]

Do you????????


Do you not recall the first gulf war and Sars, back in the 1990's when airlines didn't make any money and hadn't for decades. The entire industry was on the edge of a cliff!!!!

You can argue if that was a necessary call or not, but it is so rare and unlikely to happen and again it is in every contract and will be in this one and they know it!

 

[WeAAsles]

Do you????????


Do you not recall the first gulf war and Sars, back in the 1990's when airlines didn't make any money and hadn't for decades. The entire industry was on the edge of a cliff!!!!

You can argue if that was a necessary call or not, but it is so rare and unlikely to happen and again it is in every contract and will be in this one and they know it!

What you don’t understand is that it’s not about whether or not the language exists in our Contracts which of course we know it will. It’s about the language that states how the Company can “apply” Force Majeur.

9/11/2001 was the perfect example of where it was correctly applied.

Outside of this “Protection Language” the Company intends to apply layoffs and overages are a natural course of doing business.

Only an absolute complete fool is going to believe ANY Company would willingly tie their own hands legally from not being able to apply adjustments to their staffing as needed.

 

[swamt]

I wonder if AA executives are regretting colluding with IBT, IAM, TWU to keep AMFA out of AA and creating association that would divide us and help manipulate us to whatever the company wants.

I do find it disturbing that the definitions are kept out of AAs posting and that the 401k can be changed at companies will. If we had definitions we might be able to decipher what is meant.

Regretting? I think not. Pretty sure they are laughing all the way to the bank. Everything is going just as AA planned it to go with the asso. going right along with them just like they always do and always have, even as when they were separate unions before the asso.
AA is now stalling out to get the members to jump on the first offer after this long dragged out holding pattern is done. Company will tweak ever so slightly as the asso. still will hold strong to NO movement, then, AA will say we are done until there is a vote. Take the vote and send the message back to them that they will have to make better improvements. And this is where the asso is gonna have to move in order to get a better deal done. Vote #1 will get rejected, and vote #2 (as long as the asso. NC is working for the membership as a whole) will pass. Just like it happened here with us. AA is playing the "EXACT" same playbook as SWA did to a "T"...

 

[swamt]

They might like the SWA match for pay, but that's about it. The language wasn't complete. Where's the retro? A signing bonus of $3K might be fine for a new hire part timer, but for anybody else, a complete insult.

I agree. I thought the "matching SWA pay rates" was an attempt to buy the yes votes with all that open scope language.
Speaking of retro, has it ever been mentioned by anyone? Asso. or AA?? Signing bonus of $3,000 is an insult as you state.

 

[Kev3188]

I 21,377 post on this BB only shows you have no life.

This IS his life. He has become completely consumed by the dopamine rush that comes from seeing replies to his posts. That addiction is a very real thing. We're all just enabling him.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The Association has not relented on the Profit Sharing as part of the conversation on wages. Right now the main focus (fight) is about Scope. Everything else will come in due time. And don’t focus on the Company “proposals” as absolutes either. The majority of those proposals are not being accepted.

Don’t think ANY areas have been forgotten either because they haven’t been.

let's hope not and you and others saw what i saw..

on jetnet, the company told us that the assoc. backed off on profit sharing.

 

[WeAAsles]

let's hope not and you and others saw what i saw..

on jetnet, the company told us that the assoc. backed off on profit sharing.

Ok seriously I’m missing that part where the Company has said that the Association has backed off the conversation of Profit Sharing?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

They might like the SWA match for pay, but that's about it. The language wasn't complete. Where's the retro? A signing bonus of $3K might be fine for a new hire part timer, but for anybody else, a complete insult.

absolutely. $3k signing bonus for guys with 35 years or 3.5 months is a joke.

i brought up the additional $3k the company wants to give all lus assoc. members, for the pain of transitioning to my insurance. so painful, that the leaders of our company will give them an additional year on their cheaper/superior insurance.

so, if the company had it it's way, lus gets $6k, laa gets $3k...and lus gets an additional year of their insurance.

bananas for laa fleet service.

lots of lottery winners with this merger, find me a laa guy that's holding a winning ticket. lucky tickets say piedmont, america west and us air on them.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Ok seriously I’m missing that part where the Company has said that the Association has backed off the conversation of Profit Sharing?

on jetnet...thread the company made. comparing what the assoc. wants, what the company proposes.

i've been talking about that on jetnet and in here, i guess i talk to myself? you should have challenged me immediately..it's on jetnet.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Give up profit sharing because we will never see the same way Delta does it.
Dump it for higher wage scales through out the contract

of course we won't...but, the company can change the formula contractually for whichever work group it wants, like united.

i got $1,110 for last year. if we can get $3,500 and some of us earn $80k..that's an additional $1/hr for all.

i suspect the pilots and F/As will get mediocre raises, but the company will give them more profit sharing...and they will take it. that's an ace the company is holding.