American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

SWAMT—

When labor makes it end.

 

[Kev3188]

...dennis sanderson was right.

Where is he these days?

 

[Racer X]

I forgot his name. I just remember he was fat. The point was for peeps to watch for the fat guy. More important than him being chubby was that he made the statement that the union is not going back to the table. That is significant because it contradicts the Associaiton's "Nice guy approach" where it says that the company stormed out and dropped a "Take it or leave it" and claims the company doesn't want to come back. In the video. the truth came out, i.e., the company said it has been willing to negotiate, but the fat dude said that the union isn't going to schedule talks if such talks are same

prez
i dont think too many are concerned with layoffs since that flies in the face of massive hirings, so alot of members simply are naive that there will in fact be job loss if we give up work.
imo you guys should start hammering that a few thousand will lose their jobs through displacements. because without the threat of immediate job loss i dont see a no vote, based on what the company has put out.

job loss is job loss no matter when it happens. If the company gets catering/lavs/cargo those agents go to the ramp. Then the ramp is over staffed by how ever many catering/Lav/cargo agents get re allocated. The company won’t replace any ramp until they attrit out the excess agents. That could be hundreds alone. Granted, it may take a few years to attrit all of them BUT JOB LOSS IS JOB LOSS no matter the amount of time it takes to do it.

 

[Racer X]

Any bet you care to make on only 2 or 3 I’ll be glad to take that action.

Crickets....

 

[Racer X]

Remember Tim, I was trying to let all you guys know about this several, several months ago and I was, once again blown off by most. T/A day will get ugly. I had no numbers way back then but P Rez's 33% seems rather very high to me unless he is including the members that will except the buy-out option, you would have to ask him on that one. Sorry to hear about the layoffs and positions going by the waste side, but if it were me in your membership I would start letting the company and this asso. NC know very loudly that it would not be accepted by the membership. It really sounds to me that once again these two unions will just cave once again and just agree to everything the company wants, when does this crap end???

Where did PRez mention 33%??? I don’t remember seeing that. Unless you were referring to the hypothetical situation that he proposed to Bob... but even there he said 2/3’s.

 

[WeAAsles]

Here’s what’s know for real breaking past all the morning clutter.

The Company chose to release proposals online to test and gauge any items we might like or dislike more than likely to eventually taylor an official offer to our Negotiators.

The responses on Jetnet were overwhelmingly negative as were both Townhalls. One in MIA where Doug Parker was berated by Mechanics and one in PHL where Robert Isom was berated by Ramp Agents.

Robert Isom did respond that the Company needs to get back to the table to talk.

Currently the TWU is in Washington DC attending their Political COPE Convention discussing issues of organizing, bringing more young people into the Union and Lobbying Politicians particularly on FAA Reauthorization for the ATD. And there were Congratulations on organizing JetBlue Flight Attendants and discussions on organizing further JetBlue workers and others.



Otherwise as for any Association talks there have as yet to be any talks officially or publicly conveyed and the “guess” is that once the Company has concluded collecting their data dates to meet will be made.

 

[AANOTOK]

Well, you have four months till section 6. If it gets that far, the company will get more of what they want imo.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

granted the union updates have been all fluff and no substance while in accusation mode but Prez mentioned 33% getting laid off. he is on the committee and im assuming he isnt blowing smoke. 33% is substantual. Not sure if its a scare tactic of a loss of 5,000 jobs or if prez is telling the truth.
The company presentation mentions catering, lavs and deicing cutbacks but no job loss.

the company bragged that no fsc year-round bid jobs would be outsourced (lavs & cargo).

this excludes deicing and the company moaned that no other airline does their own catering. the company says they want to outsource deicing & catering for .22 cents an hour more and 1 extra week vc. thanks, but no thanks.

the huge jobs loss is on the AMT side. the o/h mechanics.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, you have four months till section 6. If it gets that far, the company will get more of what they want imo.

First I believe Section 6 needs to be triggered. And Section 6 is just a procedure within the RLA to try to eventually reach some type of conclusion to Collective Bargaining Negotiations.

What makes you comment that through that process the Company “will” get more of what they want? How do you suppose that?

And although many things will be thrown at people here by people who really aren’t doing the research and are trying to pull on emotions there simply is no rationality that says any parties will begin talks starting from scratch and striking all the work “mutually agreed to” over the past two years.

Common sense demands we don’t believe that kind of ridiculousness.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, you have four months till section 6. If it gets that far, the company will get more of what they want imo.

And again one more time. There is NO evidence at all that if the NMB Mediators were to amp up their activity in the talks that any deals could be “forced” on the Negotiators to release for a vote and even more so for us to vote yes on something we find to be inadequate.

Anyone claiming that as facts with no proof is being highly disingenuous.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Well, you have four months till section 6. If it gets that far, the company will get more of what they want imo.

look at the other end in what the company might potentially 'lose'. the mediator could suggest that the company open up it's profits, ala dl. if parker is correct that this company will soon realize an additional $1.5+ billion in post-merger synergies and also receive an additional $800 million a year from the credit card deals....then yes, we are on pace for yearly $3 billion-$7 billion yearly profits.

those profit sharing checks take from upper mngt. and investors and add to our wealth. does the company want this to happen?

if you dismiss this as impossible, then the company would be morons to negotiate...just let this drag on forever. i'll admit that labor is behind the 8-ball since the 1970s, but the usa is not a corporatist state yet.

there is a downside to the company playing hard-ball.

 

[Tim Nelson]

job loss is job loss no matter when it happens. If the company gets catering/lavs/cargo those agents go to the ramp. Then the ramp is over staffed by how ever many catering/Lav/cargo agents get re allocated. The company won’t replace any ramp until they attrit out the excess agents. That could be hundreds alone. Granted, it may take a few years to attrit all of them BUT JOB LOSS IS JOB LOSS no matter the amount of time it takes to do it.

stop sugar coating. you guys need to say "layoff". ive seen this 5 times over my career. With less work, company will do layoffs and realize synergies. there is NEVER overstaffing as ive never seen that. stop using that term. 6 months after this offer, a few thousand will lose their jobs while others will lose their weekends when the bottom drops cuz of members being displaced elsewhere.
the company hasnt had a layoff for 5 years so many are desensitized about being affected. But ive watched 2 company videos and the management narrators seem to scream how american has to employ 20,000 extra bodies than delta or united.
dont b so comfortable thinking that if the union bosses recommend a no vote that more than 5 people will listen.
Our members only care about the bonus and buyout just like at United.

 

[WeAAsles]

look at the other end in what the company might potentially 'lose'. the mediator could suggest that the company open up it's profits, ala dl. if parker is correct that this company will soon realize an additional $1.5+ billion in post-merger synergies and also receive an additional $800 million a year from the credit card deals....then yes, we are on pace for yearly $3 billion-$7 billion yearly profits.

those profit sharing checks take from upper mngt. and investors and add to our wealth. does the company want this to happen?

if you dismiss this as impossible, then the company would be morons to negotiate...just let this drag on forever. i'll admit that labor is behind the 8-ball since the 1970s, but the usa is not a corporatist state yet.

there is a downside to the company playing hard-ball.

I agree with rational thinking.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

yeah, but what about the insurance???

 

[Tim Nelson]

First I believe Section 6 needs to be triggered. And Section 6 is just a procedure within the RLA to try to eventually reach some type of conclusion to Collective Bargaining Negotiations.

What makes you comment that through that process the Company “will” get more of what they want? How do you suppose that?

And although many things will be thrown at people here by people who really aren’t doing the research and are trying to pull on emotions there simply is no rationality that says any parties will begin talks starting from scratch and striking all the work “mutually agreed to” over the past two years.

Common sense demands we don’t believe that kind of ridiculousness.

you have no understanding of the processes. yes, the company CAN start from scratch. the mutually agreed to items means NOTHING if the company so chooses.
And, yes, at united, this meant entirely new proposals and new surveys by members. in fact, the union had to process the new surveys prior to initiating new talks.

common sense isnt the issue but rather legal procedures and the company interest in how it wants to play things.
And although anyones opinion has the same validity at this point, it is most likely that the company position and opening proposal in section 6 will be significantly less, due to the process and assuming the company is open to mediation. its not going to open with an enhanced offer. thats not how negotiations works.
now tell alex to give that can a swift kick down the road cuz concessions for me isnt an option.