American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

The rumor isn't true. If there is movement from the airline it will be in Scope, not the medical.

ok, from your current position..i'm sure this is what you've picked up on or been told/briefed by others.

now the question would be what would be enough/what would never be enough in scope to satisfy the iam?

the lus/iam scope in regards to number of stations/flights is already better than laa scope.

what could the company offer lus/iam negotiators in regards to scope that would get them to surrender their insurance? doesn't look anything of substance? 100 lav jobs throughout the system?

wouldn't have to be $$$ and maybe catering jobs?

 

[WeAAsles]

they're doing this now, so, it's not impossible logistically. yet, at what cost to laa members? losing lavs? $1/hr. TOS?

didn't the aa side already compromise on seniority to form the assoc. with the iam? they'll compromise on this too?

i don't see it, either we're all on laa insurance or maybe some compromise on the total cost per member?

Stop thinking with a concessionary mindset. For the IAM side the Medical is becoming a do or die issue. They are digging in their heels to fight the long fight to keep it. “”””Supposedly”””” the idea the Company has in wanting to take it away is that everyone else will want it to? HORSEPUCKEY IMO. Same crap that went on at LUS for years that some posters here are so dismissive of.

Anyway letting the IAM side keep their Medical solves that issue and perception dead in its tracks.

There would be no loss on the TWU side as they might even have to give in other areas (Scope) to offset a cost? Scope being the only area really that could be done absent maybe a one time cash dispersement.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Anyway letting the IAM side keep their Medical solves that issue and perception dead in its tracks.

There would be no loss on the TWU side as they might even have to give in other areas (Scope) to offset a cost?

i never had a problem with lus members thinking/demanding that any 'exchange' for their insurance, be realized solely by lus members.

catering jobs? ok, what about the lus guy in ord or lga? keeping and upping the iam pension? both? or catering and a one-time lump sum payment that you suggest? sure.

all that doesn't make me sound like a greedy laa guy. i'd like to get something to vote on...like something presented to lus guys in 2014.

 

[NYer]

ok, from your current position..i'm sure this is what you've picked up on or been told/briefed by others.

now the question would be what would be enough/what would never be enough in scope to satisfy the iam?

the lus/iam scope in regards to number of stations/flights is already better than laa scope.

what could the company offer lus/iam negotiators in regards to scope that would get them to surrender their insurance? doesn't look anything of substance? 100 lav jobs throughout the system?

wouldn't have to be $$$ and maybe catering jobs?

Don't believe they would "surrender" the medical.

If there is a final offer and it goes to a vote, it may have a "no" recommendation and if it passes their loss would be the TWU’s fault since we have larger numbers.

If it goes to Section 6, both sides will be substantially behind other Fleet groups, in compensation, which will raise the pressure on the negotiators to get a deal.

On top of that, because the airline went public there is little to trade or compromise (even if that were possible) in exchange for medical. However the opposite is could be true. They may be able to get better scope because of the medical. (outside Section 6)

Don't see a path the medical wins unless the airline decides they're willing to give all 100K+ employees a better option. Highly unlikely is that would go against what they've done for the last 10 years and what the industry had done as well.

With margins going down and fuel expenses going up it puts pressure in containing other expenses to maintain them close to their competitors.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

For the IAM side the Medical is becoming a do or die issue. They are digging in their heels to fight the long fight to keep it.

ok..

so, by default, so am i.

too many laa would wonder why the twu part of the assoc. is 'digging in' for me and what will i get for 'digging in' and waiting; maybe for another 6-8 months - if indeed, the lus people will get to keep their insurance for the duration of one contract.

i'll ask NYer why he's digging in for me and as a twu dues payer, what will i get for digging in.

that's why i had posted i felt it important that the iam negotiators whisper amongst themselves; what would be enough to sign off on the insurance? by the company telling us they want to outsource catering, this is one lever to pull for that exchange.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

If there is a final offer and it goes to a vote, it may have a "no" recommendation and if it passes their loss would be the TWU’s fault since we have larger numbers.

well, maybe that's an exit strategy to try and win future elections, but a disservice to their members.

this is similar to a club with a star free agent who will leave a losing team in 8 months.

trade him now and get value back instead of letting him walk and you get nothing back.

 

[WeAAsles]

i never had a problem with lus members thinking/demanding that any 'exchange' for their insurance, be realized solely by lus members.

catering jobs? ok, what about the lus guy in ord or lga? keeping and upping the iam pension? both? or catering and a one-time lump sum payment that you suggest? sure.

all that doesn't make me sound like a greedy laa guy. i'd like to get something to vote on...like something presented to lus guys in 2014.

I always come back to something very simple that the Company DID NOT do back in 2014.

In the standalone IAM agreements the Company made a point on the Station Staffing Scope language to state essentially “Until a JCBA is reached” That was on the language for one flight per day to remain staffed which made that a placeholder that wasn’t meant to be permanent.

If the IAM Medical (percentage) was also meant to be modified in the future WHY didn’t the Company also insist on the placemat “Until a JCBA is reached” to be written into the language for that as well?

If they had insisted on that language and the IAM AGC’s agreed to it and ultimately their Membership they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on (honorably) to try and keep it. The arguments against it continuing would have been irrefutable.

 

[NYer]

i'll ask NYer why he's digging in for me and as a twu dues payer, what will i get for digging in.

Consider this. By December 2019, we will be more than $2 an hour behind UA. That means we'd be about $10K under, taking everything under consideration. The IAM guys will be $4K under even if they actually do pay $6K more in medical.

Those numbers will just rise as time passes. At what point does it become a financial decision or just an ideological decision to hold firm?

I'm all for them fighting and even defended the slow movement of the negotiations because of that fight but at some point that becomes counterproductive.

 

[NYer]

well, maybe that's an exit strategy to try and win future elections, but a disservice to their members.

this is similar to a club with a star free agent who will leave a losing team in 8 months.

trade him now and get value back instead of letting him walk and you get nothing back.

They're just trying to do what's best for their Members. We'd do the same exact thing.

 

[AANOTOK]

Why would you assume any rumor that the IAM Medical is gone would be true but any rumor that it survives would be false?

Where do you come up with this stuff W? I have never "assumed" any rumor about AA medical being gone to be true, I only know what AA asking for and have an opinion on it, period. Secondly, to be working beside a union brother who's medical is three times cheaper than mine under a brand new JCBA is quite frankly absurd. And to be honest, you giving it a thumbs up just to get a contract speaks volumes.

 

[WeAAsles]

well, maybe that's an exit strategy to try and win future elections, but a disservice to their members.

this is similar to a club with a star free agent who will leave a losing team in 8 months.

trade him now and get value back instead of letting him walk and you get nothing back.

They are not going to do that and only a mind with no honor or integrity would even think that way.

And the Association is set up again that neither side can be forced to accept something they don’t agree with so WHY waste the time accepting aomething for a vote, recommending no knowing absolutely that TWU side will pass it anyway?

I’ve discovered in the last few years that the LUS IAM Members are way smarter than the TWU Members unfortunately. They aren’t exactly going to be stupid enough to fall for some pathetic slimy gimmick.

 

[AANOTOK]

I like that whole “album”. Lol.

Racer, yes indeed, the whole album is quite good. I know the "Boys are back in town" was the huge hit, followed by "Jailbreak", all though I teased SPIT with it, "Cowboy Song" was my favorite.

 

[AANOTOK]

From what I understand the CC seniority issue is only on the MTC and Related side. I’m guessing that’s why it’s not endorsed by fleet presidents?

I was told this morning at work that was the case.

 

[AANOTOK]

The issue is only in their House. Thankfully when I become a CC in the future in Fleet I will keep all of my Seniority.

But I can see why more Senior TWU Members who have been waiting till they can gain better shifts and days off before jumping in would be pretty pissed off.

I certainly would have been.

So yes W, for those guys Rome may be burning...for someone who preaches against IGM greed, you seem to be just fine with your future CC opportunities and and can't wait to give a big thumbs up to screw your TWU brothers just to get a contract. What was the word of the day yesterday...Credibility?

 

[WeAAsles]

[QUOTE. Why would you assume any rumor that the IAM Medical is gone would be true but any rumor that it survives would be false?

Where do you come up with this stuff W? I have never "assumed" any rumor about AA medical being gone to be true, I only know what AA asking for and have an opinion on it, period. Secondly, to be working beside a union brother who's medical is three times cheaper than mine under a brand new JCBA is quite frankly absurd. And to be honest, you giving it a thumbs up just to get a contract speaks volumes.[/QUOTE]

AA Medical gone? Notok the IAM does not have AA Medical.

I don’t consider it to be absurd at all. Who’s going to be working side by side with people who have better Medical costs? Only BOS is going to have dual representation otherwise all the Cities have an assigned Union already.

AA claims they’re Medical offering is superior to the one the IAM Members currently have? I’m sure the Company will then be more than generous to offer the IAM side the LAA Medical during the yearly signup period and they’ll switch over in droves.

Otherwise anyway I could honestly give a rats ass if they keep their Medical and I don’t get it offered to me. I’ve never really been the jealous type. They can also keep their IAMPF and their Catering too.