American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

It’s definitely fluid, with profits and wages both changing. I have all of my payout percentages somewhere; I’ll have to dig them out and see what it worked out to each year.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Up to 9%, it depends on how much the employee contributes. The company will automatically contribute 5% of an employees annual salary to their 401k. They will MATCH up to an additional 4% of the employees contribution. Here is the bullet point from the company propaganda..."‍‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‍All TWU-IAM-represented team members would transition to an enhanced 401(k) plan. Company contributions would be an automatic 5% of your annual salary (no matching funds required by members), which is a higher contribution toward retirement than the current IAM pension plan or the current TWU 401(k). In addition, the company would match employee contributions up to 4% of the team member’s salary, for a total company contribution of up to 9%. IAM pension plan participants would retain any benefits already vested in their pension plan."

It is important to word the 9% correctly, if you were to except this offering, and only referring to the 401K, its looks ok,

(Company automatic gross pay match 5%) $64084.80 x .05 = $3204.24
(You contribute 5% of pre tax income) $3204.24
(Company will match up to 4% of your contributions) $3204.24 x .04 = $128.17

$3204.24 + $3204.24 + $128.17 = $6536.65

Looking at it as a total combined match from the company when you contribute only 5% it equates to 5.2% not the 9% that grabs attention.

$3204.24 + $128.17 = $3332.41

$3332.41 / $64084.80 = .052


Edit: After looking at this more closely its going backwards, to maintain just what we have now, a 5.5% match on gross, a person would have to contribute 12.5% just to keep what we have right now. Because from reading this we loss a half a percentage, from 5.5 to 5, this is how other airlines are doing it, so I thing we will follow suite.

 

[WeAAsles]

“When it comes to retirement savings, Americans know they are falling behind — and it's stressing them out.

Northwestern Mutual's 2018 Planning & Progress Study, which surveyed 2,003 adults, found that 78 percent of Americans say they're 'extremely' or 'somewhat' concerned about not having enough money for retirement. Another 66 percent believe that they'll outlive their retirement savings.

Their concerns are valid. A shocking 21 percent of Americans have nothing at all saved for the future, and another 10 percent have less than $5,000 socked away for their golden years, the study found.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/11/how-many-americans-have-no-retirement-savings.html?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|story|&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

 

[WeAAsles]

It is important to word the 9% correctly, if you were to except this offering, and only referring to the 401K, its looks ok,

(Company automatic gross pay match 5%) $64084.80 x .05 = $3204.24
(You contribute 5% of pre tax income) $3204.24
(Company will match up to 4% of your contributions) $3204.24 x .04 = $128.17

$3204.24 + $3204.24 + $128.17 = $6536.65

Looking at it as a total combined match from the company when you contribute only 5% it equates to 5.2% not the 9% that grabs attention.

$3204.24 + $128.17 = $3332.41

$3332.41 / $64084.80 = .052

Something looks a little fishy on your Math Bob?

Matching 5% equals $3204 but Matching another 4% is only $128?
$3204
$128

If the Company only wants to give me $128.00 for 4% I think I’d then really have to ask for that IAMPF after all?

 

[bob@las-AA]

Something looks a little fishy on your Math Bob?

Matching 5% equals $3204 but Matching another 4% is only $128?
$3204
$128

If the Company only wants to give me $128.00 for 4% I think I’d then really have to ask for that IAMPF after all?

My math is just fine, the company would match up to 4% on what You would contribute, say I put in 5% that would match up to 4% of my 5%.

4% of my 5% contribution is 128.17

 

[WeAAsles]

My math is just fine, the company would match up to 4% on what You would contribute, say I put in 5% that would match up to 4% of my 5%.

4% of my 5% contribution is 128.17

I’m sorry Bob but under your way of calculating there’s no way the Company and the Unions are even having a conversation about the extra 4% above what I’m getting now.

Just utilizing my friendly neighborhood common sense into the conversation something is way off here?

 

[bob@las-AA]

Are you seri

I’m sorry Bob but under your way of calculating there’s no way the Company and the Unions are even having a conversation about the extra 4% above what I’m getting now.

Just utilizing my friendly neighborhood common sense into the conversation something is way off here?

Are you serious? Did you read any of the other posts? I'm not the one bringing this up, I'm just demonstrating the way the company will do this, so in reality there is no 401K enhancement, is that what you are saying? Or is it what I reading, this is just for the LUS camp.

 

[WeAAsles]

Are you seri


Are you serious? Did you read any of the other posts? I'm not the one bringing this up, I'm just demonstrating the way the company will do this, so in reality there is no 401K enhancement, is that what you are saying? Or is it what I reading, this is just for the LUS camp.

You see Bob this is why I have to go with P. Rez or Crema as our resident Forums Math Wizards over you. Any time your Math is challenged you whig out and become indignant and insulted.

Of COURSE I don’t call $128 Dollars an enhancement. I call $128 a decent night on the town not including the tip.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

(You contribute 5% of pre tax income) $3204.24
(Company will match up to 4% of your contributions) $3204.24 x .04 = $128.17

i believe what the company is proposing is this:

they contribute 5% of your wages to your 401k, whether you contribute yourself or not.

after that, they will match up to 4% of your 401k contributions, if you choose to do so.

the beef with the assoc. is that not everyone will do that, but the company is claiming everyone will, and adding those numbers to it's comprehensive proposal.

right now, i contribute 5 1/2% and the company matches. i know you like the company's proposal, if it got voted in, as is; i would cut my 401k contribution from 5 1/2% to the 4% the company would match and i'm indirectly giving myself a 1 1/2% raise.

if a 2 week check grossed $3,000:
the company would put in 5% ($150).
i would put in 4% ($120)
the company would match that 4% ($120)

so, a grand total of $390 a check would be going into my 401k.

i would also indirectly give myself a .46 cent/hr. raise because i'm only putting 4% in my 401k, not 5 1/2%.

 

[bob@las-AA]

You see Bob this is why I have to go with P. Rez or Crema as our resident Forums Math Wizards over you. Any time your Math is challenged you whig out and become indignant and insulted.

Of COURSE I don’t call $128 Dollars an enhancement. I call $128 a decent night on the town not including the tip.

wasn't flipping out, I just got the impression that this enhancement was fake news.

 

[bob@las-AA]

if a 2 week check grossed $3,000:
the company would put in 5% ($150).
i would put in 4% ($120)
the company would match that 4% ($120)

so, a grand total of $390 a check would be going into my 401k.

i would also indirectly give myself a .46 cent/hr. raise because i'm only putting 4% in my 401k, not 5 1/2%.

Better yet, if someone wants to try to get as much money from the company for the 401k, a individual would have to contribute 25% to get a equivalent 6% from the company. And by the way thats 4% of $120, thats $4.80 the new total is $150+$120+$4.80=$274.80

 

[NYer]

It is important to word the 9% correctly, if you were to except this offering, and only referring to the 401K, its looks ok,

(Company automatic gross pay match 5%) $64084.80 x .05 = $3204.24
(You contribute 5% of pre tax income) $3204.24
(Company will match up to 4% of your contributions) $3204.24 x .04 = $128.17

$3204.24 + $3204.24 + $128.17 = $6536.65

Looking at it as a total combined match from the company when you contribute only 5% it equates to 5.2% not the 9% that grabs attention.

$3204.24 + $128.17 = $3332.41

$3332.41 / $64084.80 = .052


Edit: After looking at this more closely its going backwards, to maintain just what we have now, a 5.5% match on gross, a person would have to contribute 12.5% just to keep what we have right now. Because from reading this we loss a half a percentage, from 5.5 to 5, this is how other airlines are doing it, so I thing we will follow suite.

I don't believe the interpretation of "will match up to you 4% of your contribution" is correct although it is the literal translation.

The meaning of they will contribute up to 4% of your contribution refers to our percentage of the gross pay and not a percentage of your contribution.

In your example, it should be a total of 14% of your pay. (3204.24 [AA 5% contribution] + 3204.24 [Your 5% contribution] + 2563.40 [AA 4% match] = 8971.88)

"In addition, the company would match employee contributions up to 4% of the team member’s salary, for a total company contribution of up to 9%." --LAA email 3/23

 

[CremaDiLimone]

that's the way i read it.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't believe the interpretation of "will match up to you 4% of your contribution" is correct although it is the literal translation.

The meaning of they will contribute up to 4% of your contribution refers to our percentage of the gross pay and not a percentage of your contribution.

In your example, it should be a total of 14% of your pay. (3204.24 [AA 5% contribution] + 3204.24 [Your 5% contribution] + 2563.40 [AA 4% match] = 8971.88)

"In addition, the company would match employee contributions up to 4% of the team member’s salary, for a total company contribution of up to 9%." --LAA email 3/23

I believe this is the right calculation Bob.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I don't believe the interpretation of "will match up to you 4% of your contribution" is correct although it is the literal translation.

The meaning of they will contribute up to 4% of your contribution refers to our percentage of the gross pay and not a percentage of your contribution.

In your example, it should be a total of 14% of your pay. (3204.24 [AA 5% contribution] + 3204.24 [Your 5% contribution] + 2563.40 [AA 4% match] = 8971.88)

"In addition, the company would match employee contributions up to 4% of the team member’s salary, for a total company contribution of up to 9%." --LAA email 3/23

I think you are wrong, try it, 3204.24(my contribution), 4% of (my contribution) is 128.17, sorry I can't see reading this any differently.