American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Jester]

It should be a company pension too. Or we can buy into this bs narrative of how pensions suck and 401k's are awesome.

In light of all the corporate bankruptcies, who in their right mind would choose to have a company pension, especially in the airline business? Furthermore with all the financial games being played by union pensions such as not getting full credit for actual hours worked (as with overtime) vs the base hours, 5-year vesting requirement such the short-time employees contribute but earn nothing (because the lack of portability), reductions in monthly pension benefits and the opaque investment portfolio disclosures.

I understand the short-comings in the 401K due to the lack of financial expertise among the rank-and-file, but these issues could be addressed with basic education on something as simple as a two page tutorial. For example, basic information would include diversification of asset portfolio, estimated amounts needed to retirement, concepts of higher expected returns comes with higher risks, always match (at least) to the amount of the Company's matching as it is free money, knowing one's personal risk tolerance, the magic of compounding interest, mutual fund fees hit on returns, and matching investment portfolio mix to expected retirement time.

Personally, I would prefer a financially educated work force making rational decisions and understanding their investments than shoveling money into the black box of a multi-employer pension fund and see what comes out decades later.

 

[Kev3188]

Considering you didn't leave after your merger, I think your fine being handcuffed to your job.

I like what I do, and wanted to help rebuild the company I’d spent years building. Then we merged.

I’m also the proud owner of a frozen pension, and a “participant” in the IAMNPF.

I've never heard that excuse, handcuffed, to talk badly about a pension. If pensions were the norm like they were before, you could vest in one pension, move to another job and vest in that pension and so on. Just think, you could have several pensions and that would really be diversifying.

P. Rez

If you’ve never heard that, you’re not reading the room correctly. If I had a nickel for every time I heard “we gotta save the pension,” you and I could both retire.

 

[Kev3188]

In light of all the corporate bankruptcies, who in their right mind would choose to have a company pension, especially in the airline business? Furthermore with all the financial games being played by union pensions such as not getting full credit for actual hours worked (as with overtime) vs the base hours, 5-year vesting requirement such the short-time employees contribute but earn nothing (because the lack of portability), reductions in monthly pension benefits and the opaque investment portfolio disclosures.

I understand the short-comings in the 401K due to the lack of financial expertise among the rank-and-file, but these issues could be addressed with basic education on something as simple as a two page tutorial. For example, basic information would include diversification of asset portfolio, estimated amounts needed to retirement, concepts of higher expected returns comes with higher risks, always match (at least) to the amount of the Company's matching as it is free money, knowing one's personal risk tolerance, the magic of compounding interest, mutual fund fees hit on returns, and matching investment portfolio mix to expected retirement time.

Personally, I would prefer a financially educated work force making rational decisions and understanding their investments than shoveling money into the black box of a multi-employer pension fund and see what comes out decades later.

Great points all around. I’ve said on these boards that Financial Education should be the proverbial “4th leg” of the stool, but it gets laughed at.

P.Rez is a mensch, but tbh, I’m not sure how many under 35 people he’s interacting with. All the ones I speak to see pensions as a poor option.

They want something that works for them, that’s portable, and that they can control.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Kev3188,

I guess that 401k advice people didn't tell you that the people that came up with the 401k did so as a supplement to a pension. They also believe that the first wave of retirees of the 401k, did poorly. Oh well, I guess those 401K inventors are silly about their thoughts on what they tried to accomplish.

I do understand people's issue with how pensions have been treated to scare many people away, however, labor should be fighting for corporate America to contribute to a pension and 401k. It should be a company pension too. Or we can buy into this bs narrative of how pensions suck and 401k's are awesome.

P. Rez

prez
its 100% unsustainable. it lost $500 million the last year alone. It would only be about 50% funded if we didnt water it with our benefits up to 108%. It is going down to $34 a month after the trustees cut it again like its sister plan machinist motor city plan which depleted and suspended all active benefits for the retirees and to put the plan back into the green zone after stealing their pensions.
You are biased, honestly, cuz your Grand Lodge pension is overfunded.
btw you are illegally putting your health care expense on us as well. Atkinson has the forms and its against the law for you guys to be getting extra benefits that havent been approved.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Great points all around. I’ve said on these boards that Financial Education should be the proverbial “4th leg” of the stool, but it gets laughed at.

P.Rez is a mensch, but tbh, I’m not sure how many under 35 people he’s interacting with. All the ones I speak to see pensions as a poor option.

They want something that works for them, that’s portable, and that they can control.

in a perfect world, Prez is right. But due to looting, poor investments, membership depletion, infrastructure, the iam pension will die as we know it. Its an engine that must be fed by our benefits to burn off future liabilities so the retirees can hold on to their payments. Its a goner in a couple years unless they cut our benefits again.

its not even a stool in a 3 stool approach. Its gone. Parker has a moral heart moreso than Prez who has his job before the master and is willing to encourage working men into this dead plan. Just shameful. Parker is on the side of morality.
baskett follows fairbanks and cant speak, and rez is just rez.

 

[lax]

Let's say we go into section 6 openers.
If the company decides to reset negotiations or review and revise every article already agreed upon will this end up taking another 2 years to move forward? The economy always swings up and down so if negotiations keep dragging on and on at what point should we say enough is enough?
The dues keep flowing, the company makes money and we as union members wonder if we will ever get that promised ILC. As a group how much longer should we wait? Oil prices rising. Who's to blame for that? It's always labors fault. Wake up folks. We've been played by everyone. NMB, AA, TWU, IAM and the AFL-CIO.
Unfortunately we are locked in a position that our hope for change results in the same outcome. Another summer is closing in and we are no closer than we were in 2015 when the birth of the Association came into our lives. Time for a change of union leadership. New ideas, new approaches and a negotiating body that represents one skilled group versus what we have now. One Union, One Voice.
What's so difficult with this concept?
Something to think about as negotiations drag into another summer. Have a great Summer folks. Stay safe and be happy.

Sheesh someone gets it! I've said forever that the IAM and the Association scam artists have not/ are not/ and will not be friends of LAA ever. They don't represent the interests of LAA. It's been time to get them the hell off the property. Maybe W and Nyc can get together to lead the charge lol

 

[P. REZ]

in a perfect world, Prez is right. But due to looting, poor investments, membership depletion, infrastructure, the iam pension will die as we know it. Its an engine that must be fed by our benefits to burn off future liabilities so the retirees can hold on to their payments. Its a goner in a couple years unless they cut our benefits again.

its not even a stool in a 3 stool approach. Its gone. Parker has a moral heart moreso than Prez who has his job before the master and is willing to encourage working men into this dead plan. Just shameful. Parker is on the side of morality.
baskett follows fairbanks and cant speak, and rez is just rez.

Tim,

Did you read both my posts? I talked about companies offering pensions and 401k matches. I addressed that 401k's were formed to supplement a pension and that is has not been great for most Americans to date.

Sheesh,

P. Rez

 

[P. REZ]

In light of all the corporate bankruptcies, who in their right mind would choose to have a company pension, especially in the airline business? Furthermore with all the financial games being played by union pensions such as not getting full credit for actual hours worked (as with overtime) vs the base hours, 5-year vesting requirement such the short-time employees contribute but earn nothing (because the lack of portability), reductions in monthly pension benefits and the opaque investment portfolio disclosures.

I understand the short-comings in the 401K due to the lack of financial expertise among the rank-and-file, but these issues could be addressed with basic education on something as simple as a two page tutorial. For example, basic information would include diversification of asset portfolio, estimated amounts needed to retirement, concepts of higher expected returns comes with higher risks, always match (at least) to the amount of the Company's matching as it is free money, knowing one's personal risk tolerance, the magic of compounding interest, mutual fund fees hit on returns, and matching investment portfolio mix to expected retirement time.

Personally, I would prefer a financially educated work force making rational decisions and understanding their investments than shoveling money into the black box of a multi-employer pension fund and see what comes out decades later.

Jester,

I agree with employees getting educated. Regarding vesting, you don't get vested in a 401k for 5 years either. As for pensions, if they were the norm, it would be the best for employees and they could supplement it with a 401k. Sucks that Corporate America destroyed the pension and sold the 401K as gold.

P. Rez

 

[737823]

Jester,

I agree with employees getting educated. Regarding vesting, you don't get vested in a 401k for 5 years either. As for pensions, if they were the norm, it would be the best for employees and they could supplement it with a 401k. Sucks that Corporate America destroyed the pension and sold the 401K as gold.

P. Rez

Wrong. This is for the non-union/management personnel:

You are always 100% vested in your contributions and earnings on those contributions. You become 100% vested in your company matching contributions (plus their associated earnings) upon completing two years of service or reaching age 65, if earlier. Once vested, the company matching contributions and their associated earnings are yours to keep. However, if you leave American before you have two years of service, you will forfeit all company matching contributions and their associated earnings in the 401(k) plan.

https://my.aa.com/401k/

As a union negotiator and representative I’d like to think you have the ability, willingness and desire to research retirement plans and proposals that your membership has expressed a continued interest in. Then again, you seem conditioned to aim low, and here are objective cold hard facts from the company on the benefits extended to at-will, non-union, unorganized, merit/performance evaluated administrative and management professionals. Really speaks volumes to the IAMs priorities and how seem conditioned to believe the singing praise of the IAMNPF.

Josh

 

[737823]

Rez:

Even if it was a five (5) year vesting period, that is extremely junior throughout much of the LAA system. It’s not like a two (or five) year vesting schedule would have any implications to the vast majority of people participating unless this is part of the IAM’s recent record of transitioning secure middle class airline jobs to part-time, temporary, McGee and UGE type jobs. Then again even in that case the people are paid so little they wouldn’t be able to defer any salary into the 401K.

Josh

 

[P. REZ]

Wrong. This is for the non-union/management personnel:



https://my.aa.com/401k/

As a union negotiator and representative I’d like to think you have the ability, willingness and desire to research retirement plans and proposals that your membership has expressed a continued interest in. Then again, you seem conditioned to aim low, and here are objective cold hard facts from the company on the benefits extended to at-will, non-union, unorganized, merit/performance evaluated administrative and management professionals. Really speaks volumes to the IAMs priorities and how seem conditioned to believe the singing praise of the IAMNPF.

Josh

Huh? What's wrong? Vesting, it is 5 years for the 401k. Most companies are between 4-7 years. Aim low? Who said anything about the IAM pension? You might want to read my posts.

Lol,

P. Rez

 

[737823]

Huh? What's wrong? Vesting, it is 5 years for the 401k. Most companies are between 4-7 years. Aim low? Who said anything about the IAM pension? You might want to read my posts.

Lol,

P. Rez

You posted:

Regarding vesting, you don't get vested in a 401k for 5 years either.

I provided a link, quote and attribution to the 401K terms AA extends to unorganized, management personnel which specify two (2) year period for 100% vesting.

You aim low in that you want to keep the membership stuck in this loser pension and seem so conditioned to support the IAMNPF that aren’t even aware of the terms your unorganized colleagues are given by the company.

Josh

 

[P. REZ]

You posted:



I provided a link, quote and attribution to the 401K terms AA extends to unorganized, management personnel which specify two (2) year period for 100% vesting.

You aim low in that you want to keep the membership stuck in this loser pension and seem so conditioned to support the IAMNPF that aren’t even aware of the terms your unorganized colleagues are given by the company.

Josh

Lol,

I'm telling you what the vesting period is for us. As for you saying I'm wrong, no I wasn't. Remember, I'm LUS, we don't get the 5.5% match either. Higher up management gets first class, bonuses, stock options, etc. So, if I don't state we are trying for all of that, I'm aiming low? Reality check.

P. Rez

 

[gulfcoast1]

Update:

I have been informed that a communication will be forwarded to the membership on Friday concerning our equity. For all who have a vested interest in this, no other details have been released, other than that this Friday the information will be made available to your local leaders.

Thank you. I hope it is good news.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You posted:



I provided a link, quote and attribution to the 401K terms AA extends to unorganized, management personnel which specify two (2) year period for 100% vesting.

You aim low in that you want to keep the membership stuck in this loser pension and seem so conditioned to support the IAMNPF that aren’t even aware of the terms your unorganized colleagues are given by the company.

Josh

i hope management gets us the hell out of the pension. im doin an updated video to educate the members and cornhole mr basket who lies about the pension.

we cant stay in this catastrophy and we might have to consider picketing the union over screwing us on our pension when management is advocating doubling my retirement.