WeAAsles
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I really LIKE finding and posting information. Maybe I should have worked in a Library as a nerdy Fact checker?
American Airlines and Labor Negotiations
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I really LIKE finding and posting information. Maybe I should have worked in a Library as a nerdy Fact checker?
Tim Nelson
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what are you talking about? The iam pension peeps could have let our plan fall that low as well but it wiped away 1.5 billion by eliminating benefits that boosted our plan up to 108% funded.
Motor City is now in the green after they suspended and/or cut benefitss to 110% of the guarantee.
The only assumption im making is that our trustees will act responsible and do a new improvement plan to eliminate more liability but they could allow it to sink another $500 million a year and close up shop quicker.
There are a few other iam pension plans as well. All doing lousy and imputing new improvement plans.
Just remember, the iamnpf is a multi employer, not a normal defined benefit plan. Employers are running from these plans. Read Uniteds annual report and you will see why.
Fly told me a while back that he heard that the company will keep us in the plan, when all said and done, but we need out of this plan.
Tim Nelson
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yes. What does it matter if congress doesnt get involved? the pbgc multi employer funds will be gone in about 5 years....just for union pensions.
You know who funds that? Yep, we do as our funds are required to pay into it.
You know who Martinez wants to pay "more" into the pbgc funding? Yep, us participants. Remember, public funds arent used to build up the coffers of the pbgc for union pensions. Union members get screwed all around on these plans.
Another thing is that i asked you if you could have your 120% funded pension help us out. Years back, the grand lodge pension was boosted with our iam pension funds. Dont be so greedy rez, have a heart, make a motion to take funds from your grand lodge pension and sink into the iam pension.
PIEDMONT784
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Congress getting "involved' is the whole reason we have this little problem. Further. if corporate lobbyist had not not gotten involved, congress would not have gotten involved! In addition, the picture can change dramatically after the mid-terms -- swaying legislation toward a more labor friendly party...
In addition, the PBGC was another corporate lobbyist creation to ditch hard earned pensions through rigged BK laws...
WeAAsles
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So Bob would this be something that you could find acceptable? Not to mention you have to add other items into your equations.
You don’t have the IAM Stations counted in. And from there if you take out probably the biggest hit coming from CLT and (?) Catering and then Lavs on TWU side I’ll guess a roundabout shrinkage of a modest 1000 positions.
Now the job losses might be covered through attrition with the buyout but if the Company pulled the trigger with lowering the FT Headcount let the bumping begin.
BTW I heard Juniority is gone. It’s going to be straight up Seniority in the future. So your more Senior people will look to bump into DFW and CLT being the most cheapest places with the most flights to commute out of. (I think about 350 people bumped into DFW during the BK cuts)
And they’ll be no need for bumping down in the PT ranks as the Company will just fill that Warchest from those bumped down who won’t want to leave to hold on to a FT position.
Oh and they’ll be lots of hustling for a more restrictive pool of hours under the new Swap Shift language as well.
What do you think Bob? Do any of my calculations sound unreasonable?
Do you believe in black helicopters also
WeAAsles
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Kev3188
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My IAMNPF multiplier is $38.
That would be great. Juniority is a terrible concept.
Tim Nelson
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Do you know what Martinez is asking for? He wants congress to approve higher pbgc funding levels with pension participants money. So, as participants we would have to pay more. That is Labor organization friendly but not worker friendly.
A few years ago, the labor organizations sought relief from obama. He signed a multi employer friendly bill to allow unions to cut retirees checks.
You guys are either paid pollyannas in loyal service to an organization or complete morons not to understand that this is wickedly bad stuff that will destroy lives.
WeAAsles
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So are you saying that you would prefer all these plans just be left to die? Better to just bury your head in the sand and pretend that a problem doesn’t exist?
Is the only solution in your mind for “YOU” to abandon ship and hope the life raft you jumped in brings you to safe, warm shores?
1.5 Million Retirees Await Congressional Fix for a Pension Time Bomb
“If concern over retirees is not enough to get lawmakers to act, those who represent pension funds hope that concern about the broader economy will. Michael D. Scott, executive director for the National Coordinating Committee for Multiemployer Plans, projects that if all of the pension plans that are in “critical” and “critical and declining” condition go broke, the federal government would face a half trillion dollars in lost tax revenue over the next decade because of the taxes that the active funds currently pay.
“I think ultimately the government is going to look at how much tax revenue it is going to lose without a solution,” Mr. Scott said.”
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/business/multiemployer-pension-crisis.html
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bob@las-AA
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looking at that list I might have to up date it, things have changed a lot.
WeAAsles
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I’m not trying to convince you Bob. I just want you to have a good bead on all the fine print that can potentially decimate value for you over the longer terms of any deal.
I just hit 23 years on the 10th. Even with that breakdown currently I have more FT under me than over me here (About 900 below me) so I’m pretty sure I’ll still be FT and even keep at least partial weekends if my breakdown were fully applied.
Honestly it’s guys like you that I’m worried about facing the Whack a Mole hammer.
Tim Nelson
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im just being realistic. Ethically, its morally reasonable to feed all remaining oxygen bottles to sustain its life even though such life will be unsustainable and be certain death.
My only hope isnt the math rez uses that assumes this unhealthy plan is going to spring to a newness of life and run a 4 minute mile.
im looking at the numbers of sustenance. And so the only thing we can count on is the pbgc. Presently, with 15 years in the plan, im guaranteed $6,000 a year. And thats only if congress approves more of the company contributions going towards insurance instead of a benefit schedule (which means less).
Look, I dont need Prez to post scenerios which assume pension health because i can find that on the pension page.
The undeniable fact is that its unsustainable and losing $500 million a year. Has nothing to do with stocks. Hell, it actually outperformed to S&P! But that doesnt mean squat.
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