American Airlines Bankruptcy Shaped by Eastern Air Lines Strike 25 Years Ago

Sep 18, 2007
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The article also states that F. Lorenzo introduced non-refundable fares.  I thought that was a creation of Crandall and Carty and SABRE and AA (in order to put PeoplExpress out of business)?
 
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The TWA pilots cut off Lorenzo at the pass by bringing on Carl Icahn. At the closing of the deal, the TWA ALPA guy is shown affixing his Captain's hat atop Carl's dome. I remember the pic being published in the NYT, but I've yet to locate it. Maybe someone here can.  
 
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I think comparing Parker to Lorenzo is a bit over the top.
 
DallasConehead said:
I think comparing Parker to Lorenzo is a bit over the top.
I don't !!! He's cut from the same cloth! We have been fighting for a contract for Three years! The AA mechanics make several dollars an hour more than US mechanics,and they just exited BK. If AA thought Horton was against unions they greatly misjudged him.
Parker is as Anti Labor as Lorenzo!!!
 
While AA AMTs may make more hourly. We do not get 2x ot, only 5 holidays, 5 sk days and less vc.
 
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As a disclaimer, I have no particular love for Frank Lorenzo, because he bought my airline and I wound up on the street as a result of it.

That said, he was a visionary. And being a visionary is mutually exclusive from being ethical, admired or seen as a good leader.

He was certainly the first airline to do a wholesale rejection of labor agreements...

He was the first in the airline industry to move assets away from a higher cost subsidiary over to a lower cost subsidiary.

I believe he was also the first airline to spin off its reservations system into a separate subsidiary (SystemOne).

Again, hardly what I'd call admirable events, but they were visionary in that he saw the potential business value in pursuing ideas that nobody else had ever thought of or acted on.

FrugalFlyerv2.0 said:
The article also states that F. Lorenzo introduced non-refundable fares.  I thought that was a creation of Crandall and Carty and SABRE and AA (in order to put PeoplExpress out of business)?
n

Non-refundables had existed in different forms for a while. Lorenzo might have been the first to push them across the board for advance purchases at TXI -- since they were state regulated and not under the CAB, they could do that where the legacy airlines couldn't.

What AA developed to put PeoplExpress out of business was yield management.

I worked at PE up until the end, and our capacity controls sucked. Q was just about anything booked 14+ days, V had some capacity controls within 14 days, and K was the unrestricted walk-up. I don't think there was anything preventing an entire flight from selling out at a Q fare.

We were essentially ticketless -- payment was made inflight, and there was no connection between what price you'd been quoted in the reservation vs. what you were charged onboard, so lots of people wound up getting undercharged along the way.

Because of the onboard ticketing, there was no risk in making a reservation and no-showing. So PE would overbook like crazy... 130% of capacity on the narrowbodies was the norm, and on the 742's, it wasn't uncommon to have an AU of 800, yet we'd still get nonrevs on.


AA had much better controls -- rather than match every seat at PE's prices, AA would watch bookings and only sell a subset of seats at PE's prices, which left space on the peak flights for more expensive fares.
 
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Carl Icahn and Lorenzo had no love for each other. But there was a story floating around at TWA, that at one time, Icahn had made an offer to buy Continental airlines. Supposedly they agreed on a deal on a Friday, Shuck hands, Lorenzo was to send his lawyers to finalize it on the next Monday at Icahn's Mt. Kiskal, N.Y. Offices. -------- They never showed!
 
What's ironic in the whole Lorenzo/Icahn saga is that the TW employees saw Carl as a white knight compared to Frank.

Oops.
 
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There is a book about Lorenz and Icahn, my brother was reading it in Collage. I can remember him and my parents talking and TWA was the prize who would get it.
 
eolesen said:
What's ironic in the whole Lorenzo/Icahn saga is that the TW employees saw Carl as a white knight compared to Frank.

Oops.
 Uncle Carl,  was an unknown to us at the time. We knew what Franky was! ------- It was a situation of "your damned if you do! And damned if you don't!"------ But that feeling of Carl being a "White Knight" didn't last long!!!
 
And Section 1113 C was made into law because of Lorenzo and how he treated labor in CO's chapter 11.
 
700UW said:
And Section 1113 C was made into law because of Lorenzo and how he treated labor in CO's chapter 11.
I'd hardly label the creation of S.1113 as a victory... The cuts that would have been sought by outright abrogation still manage to happen eventually, so all I can see is it slows down the inevitable.

But, the story most unionists either don't know or simply won't talk about is that even if it had existed, S.1113 probably wouldn't have prevented Lorenzo from throwing out the existing labor agreements and implementing new work rules for the IAM and ALPA without the court's permission.

After the takeover, his team discovered that neither the IAM or ALPA had ever been duly elected to represent the mechanics or the pilots. CAL had been doing so voluntarily for over 50 years. When the pilots went on strike in 1983, Lorenzo simply ceased to honor the voluntary recognition as a bargaining unit. Since they'd never actually been elected, there was little that the unions or the NMB could do about that.

Hopefully, all the unions have closed *that* loophole by now, but his ability for exploiting loopholes was yet another area where Frank met the definition of being a visionary...
 
Before 1113 CBAs were treated like regular business contracts and could be thrown out by a judge without any process and it also wiped out union certification.
 
Now with 1113 at least negotiations have to take place, did you not remember that the court refused to abrogate the AA Pilots CBA?
 
He was such a visionary he is the only US Citizen banned from ever owning or running an airline again.
 
dvlhog212 said:
While AA AMTs may make more hourly. We do not get 2x ot, only 5 holidays, 5 sk days and less vc.
US doesn't have Double time except for 7th day worked. 5 Weeks vacation 10 holidays
10 Sick days
 

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