American Airlines: Time for labor deals dwindling

[john john]

Not a violation of the RLA, but it might cause some issues with the FAA regarding training compliance. It's hard enough for some people to be in compliance with AA's procedures... can you imagine trying to stay current on two or three carriers?....

Z-card

Merchant Mariner's Document
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Mariner's_Document

 

[Buck]

Facilities, Plant and Auto shop are part of the M&R group. Let's stick with our profession first.

I am all for sticking with our profession. Drop the the Title II group, now what about the rest of the TWU?

 

[texasreb]

Not a violation of the RLA, but it might cause some issues with the FAA regarding training compliance. It's hard enough for some people to be in compliance with AA's procedures... can you imagine trying to stay current on two or three carriers?....

I am sure that no one checks to see if the Chinese are in compliance. The faa has to set up an appointment to see the Chinese bases. Plenty of time to hide things that way.

 

[strikeforce]

Not a violation of the RLA, but it might cause some issues with the FAA regarding training compliance. It's hard enough for some people to be in compliance with AA's procedures... can you imagine trying to stay current on two or three carriers?....

the org would train their own members just like construction, electricians or plumbers. and, isn't it up to AA to keep people accountable to be in compliance??? Management allows people to be lax and not in compliance.

 

[Buck]

I am sure that no one checks to see if the Chinese are in compliance. The faa has to set up an appointment to see the Chinese bases. Plenty of time to hide things that way.

At TUL, we usually know anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks before a FAA inspection. If the Chinese are going to grant visits , then both the US and the Chinese can avoid any issues.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think Mach has come up with the ultimate solution.

Before pilots and FA's could work at any airline you'd have to convince all the airlines to use exactly the same policies/procedures to comply with the FAR's. Then, since most bigger carriers use computerized bidding, scheduling, and the like they'd all have to go to the same systems and contracts. So it's like wishing for a national seniority list by pilots who have a lot of longevity for their seniority - easy to wish for but impossible to get since the airlines would have to agree.

Jim

 

[Buck]

Before pilots and FA's could work at any airline you'd have to convince all the airlines to use exactly the same policies/procedures to comply with the FAR's. Then, since most bigger carriers use computerized bidding, scheduling, and the like they'd all have to go to the same systems and contracts. So it's like wishing for a national seniority list by pilots who have a lot of longevity for their seniority - easy to wish for but impossible to get since the airlines would have to agree.

Jim

Longevity for seniority, what is that?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Longevity for seniority, what is that?

Longevity is how long it's been since you were hired, seniority is how far up the seniority list you are. The difference is the cause of the pilot's mess at US. At the time of the merger, an original US pilot needed almost 17 years of longevity to hold a job (not be furloughed) and 25 or so years to be a captain while at HP pilots were being hired and 7 or so years was enough to hold captain. So what we call east pilots generally had a lot of longevity with little seniority while HP pilots had a lot of seniority for relatively little longevity.

For most employee groups, seniority doesn't make that much difference - a mechanic isn't paid by what plane he works on nor is a FA, a CSA isn't paid by what gate they work, etc. But for pilots pay, retirement, how much $$ vacation is worth, how much $$ sick time is worth, etc depend on where a pilot is on the seniority list instead of how long that pilot has been on the seniority list (longevity).

A national seniority list for pilots would mean a pilot would get a seniority number on the national list when first hired, no matter what airline. He could go to another carrier at will, take that seniority number with him, and exercise the rights of that seniority number at the new carrier. So an east US pilot with 20 years (a f/o makiing $85/hr) could go to UA with a seniority number high enough to be a 777 captain (making $200/hr) or WN and be a 737 captain (making $230/hr). A national seniority list would effectively turn all the different carriers into one carrier as far as pilots were concerned - those with a high national seniority number could go wherever the money/benefits were better while those with a lower number would not move up when their time came at their carrier because more senior pilots would come in from other carriers and hold them down.

Jim

 

[eolesen]

A national seniority list for pilots would mean a pilot would get a seniority number on the national list when first hired, no matter what airline.

This could happen now with the unions already in place -- the only requirement would be for ALPA, APA and SWAPA to agree to recognize the national list for someone switching carriers.

No small task, and not without its downsides i.e. do you really treat the 25 year pilot at Skywest who has only flown props and RJs out of SLC for his entire career as being superior to a 24 year guy at AA who has worked everything from RJ's at a previous carrier to international widebodies?...

 

[BoeingBoy]

You identify one of several problems with implementing a national list. Another is the stagnant vs growing carriers - would the pilots at the growing carriers really go for something that lets pilots from stagnant carriers come in at the front of the line, effectively transferring the stagnation from one carrier to the other's pilots? Then, would the carriers agree to being told to hire the applicants with the most seniority on a national list? Finally, it'd create a roving group of pilots who would leave the new hire openings at the less desirable carriers. Why should a carrier offer more money to attract the best of the best when they can't pick and choose who to hire.

Jim

 

[Buck]

This could happen now with the unions already in place -- the only requirement would be for ALPA, APA and SWAPA to agree to recognize the national list for someone switching carriers.

No small task, and not without its downsides i.e. do you really treat the 25 year pilot at Skywest who has only flown props and RJs out of SLC for his entire career as being superior to a 24 year guy at AA who has worked everything from RJ's at a previous carrier to international widebodies?...

It would be as easy as a "Virtual RIF" just like the Mechanic and Related are going to go through. One shot and your done. Every pilot places his data into the pot and shuffle, a new national list.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not quite as easy as it sounds. You'd have to get all the unions that represent a given craft/class to go along, as well as all the carriers (what good is a national list if the people doing the hiring/furloughing don't follow it) and then get all carriers to agree on a given set of policy/procedures for groups that are affected by the FAR's (equivalent to being one carrier poliicy/procedure-wise). Any of those could be an insurmountable obstacle.

Jim

 

[AANOTOK]

Not quite as easy as it sounds. You'd have to get all the unions that represent a given craft/class to go along, as well as all the carriers (what good is a national list if the people doing the hiring/furloughing don't follow it) and then get all carriers to agree on a given set of policy/procedures for groups that are affected by the FAR's (equivalent to being one carrier poliicy/procedure-wise). Any of those could be an insurmountable obstacle.

Jim

Sorry guy's, nothing more than blog fodder. But this "unskilled" Fleet service clerk cc loves reading it. 🙄

 

[strikeforce]

Not quite as easy as it sounds. You'd have to get all the unions that represent a given craft/class to go along, as well as all the carriers (what good is a national list if the people doing the hiring/furloughing don't follow it) and then get all carriers to agree on a given set of policy/procedures for groups that are affected by the FAR's (equivalent to being one carrier poliicy/procedure-wise). Any of those could be an insurmountable obstacle.

Jim

wouldn't be difficult at all. The members would decide whether seniority is based on longevity or occupational seniority. Done!

second, and because you work for the staffing agency and NOT the airlines.....your placement with a carrier is based on your qualifications within the union. It's not rocket science people!

 

[700UW]

To get that accomplished every airline would have to have the same flight, ground and maintenance operation, that wont ever happen.

They all would have to have the same exact plan of business with the FAA and its approval.

Thats a monumental task as Jim pointed out.