American to park 10% of MD-80s to cut U.S. capacity

[TWU informer]

Yeah,

Probably zero truth to oil being $110+ plus per barrel.
Probably zero truth to still have an industry over capacity issue.
Probably zero truth that internet seat sales have taken away the premium fare of old.
Probably zero truth to we have a defined pension plan while others lost theirs in Bankruptcy.
Probably zero truth to accelerating grounding of gas guzzling aircraft.
Probably zero truth to outsourcing some work would be cheaper than doing it in-house.
Probably zero truth to AA having a management team that has to hire consulting firms, instead of using real industry experience and vision of a leader.
Probably zero truth to the Pilot Sacred Cow Pension with a lump sum option is costly and other groups have to subsidize that for others which we do not have ourselves.
Probably zero truth to Health Care Cost an unpredictable expense for current and retired employees.
Probably zero truth to we would suffer if our current management left and went somewhere else to run a business into the ground.
Probably zero truth to the economy is still in shambles and has been since 9/11 happened.
Probably zero truth to our Government is outrageously in debt with out of control spending that will keep the economy in the tank.
Probably zero truth to natural disasters are on the rise and human life impact is huge.

Maybe some day we will be able to hear the truth and know it is fact.
Maybe some day we will be thankful for what we have instead of being focused what we don't have.

Maybe some day the Union and the Company will actually deal with each in trustful way with facts instead of bluffs and falsehoods.

Maybe some day the greed will become compassion.

Probably and Maybe are not factual life at all. Instead a life of gamble.

 

[Bob Owens]

Probably and Maybe are not factual life at all. Instead a life of gamble.

There are few certainties in Life, at our age thats one lesson we should have learned.

Life is a gamble whether we like it or not.

Eight years ago we gave up our lifestyles, or at least the ability to sustain it, essentially betting the company would be able to restore it. Well they choose to do other things with with the $7 billion windfall, even at $110bbl not all of its going to the oil companies. We have to put everything on the table in order to get it back or at least see real improvement over the status quo. Is there risk? Yes, but the risk of not taking it is that our lifestyles will continue to degrade. So you are left with a choice, dont take the risk and agree to see you lifestyle continue to degrade or take a chance , maybe we can make it better, with the chance that it might degrade anyway.

 

[WorldTraveler]

There are few certainties in Life, at our age thats one lesson we should have learned.

Life is a gamble whether we like it or not.

Eight years ago we gave up our lifestyles, or at least the ability to sustain it, essentially betting the company would be able to restore it. Well they choose to do other things with with the $7 billion windfall, even at $110bbl not all of its going to the oil companies. We have to put everything on the table in order to get it back or at least see real improvement over the status quo. Is there risk? Yes, but the risk of not taking it is that our lifestyles will continue to degrade. So you are left with a choice, dont take the risk and agree to see you lifestyle continue to degrade or take a chance , maybe we can make it better, with the chance that it might degrade anyway.

well said, Bob.
What should be apparent is that the status quo is unsustainable.

 

[TWU informer]

I see a new TWU t-shirt on the horizon.

T-W-U​

"Maybe We Can Make It Better"​

:blink:​

 

[TWU informer]

Yeah,

Probably zero truth to oil being $110+ plus per barrel.
Probably zero truth to still have an industry over capacity issue.
Probably zero truth that internet seat sales have taken away the premium fare of old.
Probably zero truth to we have a defined pension plan while others lost theirs in Bankruptcy.
Probably zero truth to accelerating grounding of gas guzzling aircraft.
Probably zero truth to outsourcing some work would be cheaper than doing it in-house.
Probably zero truth to AA having a management team that has to hire consulting firms, instead of using real industry experience and vision of a leader.
Probably zero truth to the Pilot Sacred Cow Pension with a lump sum option is costly and other groups have to subsidize that for others which we do not have ourselves.
Probably zero truth to Health Care Cost an unpredictable expense for current and retired employees.
Probably zero truth to we would suffer if our current management left and went somewhere else to run a business into the ground.
Probably zero truth to the economy is still in shambles and has been since 9/11 happened.
Probably zero truth to our Government is outrageously in debt with out of control spending that will keep the economy in the tank.
Probably zero truth to natural disasters are on the rise and human life impact is huge.

Maybe some day we will be able to hear the truth and know it is fact.
Maybe some day we will be thankful for what we have instead of being focused what we don't have.

Maybe some day the Union and the Company will actually deal with each in trustful way with facts instead of bluffs and falsehoods.

Maybe some day the greed will become compassion.

Probably and Maybe are not factual life at all. Instead a life of gamble.

Maybe I should have Probably posted something else instead.

 

[Bob Owens]

well said, Bob.
What should be apparent is that the status quo is unsustainable.

I agree, the people at the top are taking way too much.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Bob,
I have held back no punches to you in the past but I have to say I am beyond speechless (which is pretty hard to do) to read that AMR continues to increase the competition of Arpey and put in place bankruptcy proof executive compensation packages.
.
For those of us who have followed the airline industry since before deregulation, watching AA continue to be forced to its knees is beyond gut-wrenching.
.
Those who know the history of the industry know that what AA is going through right now looks very much like what EA went through decades ago.
To just continue to play the blame game while tens of thousands of jobs are on the line is not something I can do.
.
I can only hope, Bob, that you and other leader labors organize a very public and very loud appeal to AMR’s board of directors – even in their remote hideout in Los Angeles where they think they can hide from their employees – for the current management team to be replaced.
It seems fruitless to entertain any meaningful discussions about concessions from AA labor if AA mgmt cannot manage the resources it does have.

 

[strikeforce]

Bob,
I have held back no punches to you in the past but I have to say I am beyond speechless (which is pretty hard to do) to read that AMR continues to increase the competition of Arpey and put in place bankruptcy proof executive compensation packages.
.
For those of us who have followed the airline industry since before deregulation, watching AA continue to be forced to its knees is beyond gut-wrenching.
.
Those who know the history of the industry know that what AA is going through right now looks very much like what EA went through decades ago.
To just continue to play the blame game while tens of thousands of jobs are on the line is not something I can do.
.
I can only hope, Bob, that you and other leader labors organize a very public and very loud appeal to AMR’s board of directors – even in their remote hideout in Los Angeles where they think they can hide from their employees – for the current management team to be replaced.
It seems fruitless to entertain any meaningful discussions about concessions from AA labor if AA mgmt cannot manage the resources it does have.

So, is it fair to say that Arpey and the clan spend more time planning how to best protect themselves in BK than run an efficient operation? 2003 all over again?

 

[PhatSappy]

Can't do that....AA will have to hire more sup's in order to find the correct list.

Yep! They'll never get the list right. LOL I'd tell 'em to use the system seniority list, make the offer of a 5 & 5 with one week to decide. They would also save a lot on sick leave useage - at least in my case - 'cause I plan to use it all one way or another.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
I have held back no punches to you in the past but I have to say I am beyond speechless (which is pretty hard to do) to read that AMR continues to increase the competition of Arpey and put in place bankruptcy proof executive compensation packages.
.
For those of us who have followed the airline industry since before deregulation, watching AA continue to be forced to its knees is beyond gut-wrenching.
.
Those who know the history of the industry know that what AA is going through right now looks very much like what EA went through decades ago.
To just continue to play the blame game while tens of thousands of jobs are on the line is not something I can do.
.
I can only hope, Bob, that you and other leader labors organize a very public and very loud appeal to AMR’s board of directors – even in their remote hideout in Los Angeles where they think they can hide from their employees – for the current management team to be replaced.

While there are some similarities, such as the poor marale and squandered opportunities (which is not unique to AA, just look at UAL, USAIR etc) there are a lot of important differences. There is no "Continental" thats getting all of AA's assetts at fire sale prices, the real wages are at least 40% lower now than they were then-meaning that workers have more opportunities to leave this industry and match or exceed what they are making without the headaches (the NYC MTA pays their mechanics more than AA does with full medical and a 25 year retirement). Back in the 80s this was still a pretty good job, even at the Continentals of the time. Now we have people quitting with over 20 years seniority because they cant justify working for what the airlines expect them to accept. If it wasnt for CS'ing they would probably lose even more.

As far as replacing the executives, I could care less, in fact I'd rather not see them replaced, because if they did then we would be fed the BS about how "we need to give the new guys a chance" instead of forging ahead with what we need to get out of this place.

I say we need to focus on getting the NMB to release us and start the 30 day clock.

Appealing to the BOD is pointless, after all they approved the "pay for non-performance" plan thats in place didnt they?

 

[odie01]

I say we need to focus on getting the NMB to release us and start the 30 day clock.

Appealing to the BOD is pointless, after all they approved the "pay for non-performance" plan thats in place didnt they?

After the high pressure amway sales pitch on the 28th, I say we ask Jack for 30 days, they know our position and are stalling. This is a stale mate even though we have our queen and two rooks, enough is enough.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Bob,
as painful as it is to recognize, the airline industry is not a place for a career anymore... but sadly, neither are a whole lot of other places.... workers entering the job market today must EXPECT they will have to change jobs within their industry and then likely change industries at least once and maybe twice in their working lives. The world has changed and continues to change very rapidly.
.
The bottom line is that airlines can afford to have people work for them for 5-10 years and the reaity is that most people have contributed as much in 10 years on a job as they will in a career... unless they get significantly more education or take a break to get experience somewhere else, most people are not able to add significantly more value to their employer in the 2nd half than they did in the first half of their career.
.
AA is probably happy to see alot of senior people leaving the company just as the pension funding requirements for workers increases dramatically.
.
As much as you want to beleive otherwise, planes are not falling out of the sky because of Chinese and Salvadoran mechanics. When the most recent aviation scares in the US appear to be traced back to the manufacturer - one of the US' largest exporters - the hope that American workers will avoid further downsizing is nearly fanciful.
>
Yes, I say push for the NMB to release you and other unions. I just don't see that you are going to get much even if self-help is available to you.
.
When you combine the dismal labor environment - driven by high unemployment and a perpetually broken US economy - with the major strategic mistakes AA has made that is costing it precious revenue, I am a long ways from being optimistic about AA's future - and ultimately that of a whole lot of AA employees and their families.

 

[odie01]

Bob,
as painful as it is to recognize, the airline industry is not a place for a career anymore... but sadly, neither are a whole lot of other places.... workers entering the job market today must EXPECT they will have to change jobs within their industry and then likely change industries at least once and maybe twice in their working lives. The world has changed and continues to change very rapidly.
.
The bottom line is that airlines can afford to have people work for them for 5-10 years and the reaity is that most people have contributed as much in 10 years on a job as they will in a career... unless they get significantly more education or take a break to get experience somewhere else, most people are not able to add significantly more value to their employer in the 2nd half than they did in the first half of their career.
.
AA is probably happy to see alot of senior people leaving the company just as the pension funding requirements for workers increases dramatically.
.
As much as you want to beleive otherwise, planes are not falling out of the sky because of Chinese and Salvadoran mechanics. When the most recent aviation scares in the US appear to be traced back to the manufacturer - one of the US' largest exporters - the hope that American workers will avoid further downsizing is nearly fanciful.
>
Yes, I say push for the NMB to release you and other unions. I just don't see that you are going to get much even if self-help is available to you.
.
When you combine the dismal labor environment - driven by high unemployment and a perpetually broken US economy - with the major strategic mistakes AA has made that is costing it precious revenue, I am a long ways from being optimistic about AA's future - and ultimately that of a whole lot of AA employees and their families.

OK, that's good, thanks for your concern, see ya later!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
as painful as it is to recognize, the airline industry is not a place for a career anymore... but sadly, neither are a whole lot of other places.... workers entering the job market today must EXPECT they will have to change jobs within their industry and then likely change industries at least once and maybe twice in their working lives. The world has changed and continues to change very rapidly.
.
The bottom line is that airlines can afford to have people work for them for 5-10 years and the reaity is that most people have contributed as much in 10 years on a job as they will in a career... unless they get significantly more education or take a break to get experience somewhere else, most people are not able to add significantly more value to their employer in the 2nd half than they did in the first half of their career.
.
AA is probably happy to see alot of senior people leaving the company just as the pension funding requirements for workers increases dramatically.
.
As much as you want to beleive otherwise, planes are not falling out of the sky because of Chinese and Salvadoran mechanics. When the most recent aviation scares in the US appear to be traced back to the manufacturer - one of the US' largest exporters - the hope that American workers will avoid further downsizing is nearly fanciful.
>
Yes, I say push for the NMB to release you and other unions. I just don't see that you are going to get much even if self-help is available to you.
.
When you combine the dismal labor environment - driven by high unemployment and a perpetually broken US economy - with the major strategic mistakes AA has made that is costing it precious revenue, I am a long ways from being optimistic about AA's future - and ultimately that of a whole lot of AA employees and their families.

The fact is that most of us have changed jobs, we had to have five years of experience on Heavy Turbine just to get the job. 5 to 10 years is about how long it takes to become proficient as a mechanic. You may not think much of us or value our skills but maybe you should, the next time you are 8 miles high in a pressurized aluminium can going 600 mph. The fact is that we are not "most people'. We do continue to add value throughout our careers, perhaps thats one reason why I'm told that AA just hired a mechanic in his 60s. One of the things that we tend to like about Line Maintenance is that every day is different. We never know what we will face from day to day and that makes the job fun. That makes us highly adaptable and valuable, think about how much just one lost flight due to inexperience costs a company compared to what they may save with a lower wage. They dont want a turnover of mechanics, they just want to bluff us into working for less. You obviously know very little about how the airlines work.

Maybe planes arent falling out of the sky, yet, but lets see where this SWA thing lands, already its been revealed that the part that failed was outsourced by Boeing to Spirit. I think that all those places, domestic or foreign are chop-shops as I've worked in one, gave it three months before I quit.

The fact is when push comes to shove AA's ability to pay will be determined by their desire to operate. We know that this time we have them and that despite the economy that they have driven so many mechanics out of the industry that any attempt to re-enact what NWA did would be about as successful as their attempt to bust the APFA in 1993. Many of us have already arranged things so as to minimize the impact of yet another airline liquidation as many of us have been through a few already. In my case my wife returned to the workforce and already she earn over $5/hr more than me. They cant find enough mechanics to do the work they currently have and AA is not alone. I hear that UAL is also seeing a 60% denial rate for recall by their mechanics, these would be guys that had as much as 20 years with the company, the ones most likely to return, the lower they get on the list the higher the likelyhood is that they will not come back.

I'm optimistic that regardless of what happens to AA that the families of the mechanics who work for AA will make out just fine. Those that have left or even been fired have landed on their feet "post AA" and earn more than they would had they stayed. I'm sure that other carriers would scoop up most of AA's planes and orders because the millions of passengers we fly every year arent going to stay home and the banks that own those planes arent going to just set their investment in the desert to rot.

I'm willing to lay what little AA is still giving me on the line, because I know that despite this economy I can do better than what they are offering. Is AA? Or will they continue to hide under the skirt of the NMB?

 

[PhatSappy]

Not great news for those of us hanging on to the bottom of the list by our fingernails, but it's only fair to quote from later in the same article:

American said it intended to take delivery of two additional Boeing 777-300ERs, bringing to five the total number of new wide-body jets it will add to its fleet during 2012 and 2013 to support overseas flying.

The latest network tweaks will reduce American's flying within the U.S. by .5 percent for the year, while boosting international capacity by 8.1 percent for the year.

MK

If they match this with 10% of us getting a 5&5 retirement option you'll be just fine.