Amfa Negotiations

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Day two negotiation notes (PDF Link)


Day two negotiation notes
By Terry O'Rourke AMFA Local 9 member and Way Points Editor
Rosemont, Illinois, December 1, 2004 11:15 PM

Today marks the second day of negotiations with the company. As an observer, I witnessed some significant developments today. The company and AMFA reached a considerable philosophical impasse in the morning meeting. In the afternoon Pete McDonald, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer met with the Negotiating Committee.

The late afternoon session featured a question and answer session with the Negotiating Committee and many Chicago observers.

The company maintained its position today that it only wants to talk about collective bargaining agreement (CBA) changes. They only want to reduce CBA items such as pay, benefits, vacation and sick leave. They refuse to talk about any fundamental business changes that feature non-CBA items.

The AMFA Negotiations Committee has spent the last few weeks preparing to offer substantive and independently verifiable cost saving suggestions to the company. They have engaged the help of their professional staff as well as a consultant firm.
Al Koehler, the lead negotiator for the company, asserted that the bankruptcy exit lenders require the company to reduce costs only through CBA changes. This stance, to me, severely strains the company credibility. I do not think that any lender draws a distinction about the source of any cost savings, provided these cuts can be independently verified. From my point of view, the only thing the lenders really care about is that they lend money at a profitable rate while they minimize their risk of loan default.

AMFA negotiator David Frizzell commented that this shift of responsibility from the company to the exit lenders reminded him of the position the company took when it decided last summer to stop pension funding. You may remember at that time that they blamed the lenders for their actions. The company made a business decision and then tried to evade responsibility. Within a short time the company retracted their story because it was not true. It turned out the company decided to stop funding the pensions; the lenders did not require that action.

This stance leaves me baffled. The company not only wants to save a dollar but also control source. Why do they care who provides the cost savings? I can only conclude that they see a unique opportunity to roll back generations of CBA improvements. Former generations of workers suffered strikes, lockouts, and other injustice to win the CBA terms that we enjoy today.

The behavior and words that the company negotiators exhibited during these first two days leaves me with very little room to draw a conclusion. They display no interest in the unique perspective and expertise of our membership. They simply desire to gut our CBA.

Perhaps the greatest cost that the company reaps from this action is the loss of opportunity to proceed in a truly viable sustainable path. By tossing off the possibility of non-CBA cost savings, the company loses a valuable asset for its long-term success. Do they really think that only management can conceive cost-saving ideas?

If we allow a wholesale CBA reduction, a demoralized workforce will then have little incentive to help the company transform itself into a long-term competitor. The company, as demonstrated by its narrow negotiation focus, does not view us as an asset, only a liability.

The Negotiating Committee informed Al Koehler that they found his position incredible and they wanted to meet with an executive level company official such as CEO Glenn Tilton or COO Pete McDonald. The Negotiating Committee wanted to verify that this attitude went all the way to the top. Al Koehler responded that he would forward our request but he felt the chances of arranging a meeting as “pretty remote.â€

The AMFA negotiators reconvened after lunch and learned that Pete McDonald, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer would arrive at the negotiation table at 3:30. Shortly before Mr. McDonald arrived, the observer contingent swelled to more than 30 with mechanics coming off of day shift. After repositioning a few rows of chairs, the observers watched the AMFA negotiators prepare for Mr. McDonald’s session.

Mr. McDonald arrived with company negotiators Al Koehler, Phil Coley, and Gary Kaplan. Mr. McDonald opened his remarks by affirming the full authority that he delegated to Mr. Koehler. He continued by saying that the company now focused on one thing: a sustainable, profitable business that provides good jobs. After briefly reviewing the series of company programs aimed at cutting costs, he concluded that the company still found itself short $725 million to secure “exit financing that meets financial metrics.â€

He then went right to the heart of our disagreement with the company. He maintained that AMFA would only receive credit for CBA cuts. Any suggestions that are not directly CBA related will not count. Several committee members asked repeatedly, in several different ways, why AMFA would not be able to make cost saving suggestions beyond the CBA and receive credit for them. He continually insisted that while the company encourages non-CBA cost saving ideas, it would not award credit for them.

When one questioner inquired as to what would motivate a work group to give cost saving suggestions when it would not receive credit, his reply left many aghast. He replied, “You should be happy that you have good jobs with competitive wages and benefits.â€

He often gave the same answer when asked about our cost-saving suggestions. Cost saving suggestions could take only two paths: the CBA cuts would receive credit toward the company’s $101 million savings target or the non-CBA cuts would follow a “parallel path†and receive no credit. One questioner asked why we would bother to offer non-CBA cost saving ideas. He replied that a healthy company could offer a “profit-sharing program.†The ripple of laughter that moved through the observer gallery betrayed the skepticism of an ESOP-weary audience.

Many observers commented on Mr. McDonald’s demeanor as arrogant and insincere. When his arguments failed to persuade, he simply repeated himself. He must have mentioned the “parallel path†description five or six times. I sensed that he felt if he just said it a few more times we might finally get it! No one smiled when the meeting ended.

Mr. McDonald made one thing perfectly clear. This company does not wish to engage a collaborative work force. It does not want to tap our creativity in helping this company out of its life-threatening financial morass. It only wants to reduce our standard of living and hope that we cooperate in acting against our clear financial self-interest.

Following the McDonald session, the meeting moved to another room. Most of the Chicago observers stayed and occupied chairs lining the walls around a large table. O.V. Delle-Femine opened this session by asking the observers one-by-one for comments and questions. Some of the comments:

• “The company acts like it’s a one-way street.â€
• “It’s a smokescreen, all window dressing.â€
• “The company has no credibility.â€
• “I think that it’s a front. They’re just going through the motions, biding time.â€
• “It seemed rehearsed, repetitive, staged.â€
• “Nothing will happen until the final hour.â€

Many of the questions were posed to Scott Petersen, the AMFA attorney. Scott fielded many questions related to the intersection of bankruptcy and Railway Labor Act law. Scott noted, “Since the bankruptcy law reforms of the early 1990s there has never been a contract rejection.†Scott feels that the US Air case “will be precedent setting.â€

There have been some small victories during these first two days of negotiations. Our position on observers prevailed. The Chicago members, if this afternoon is any indication, clearly enjoyed playing a role in negotiations. I expect this trend will continue next week in Chicago and San Francisco members can look forward to participating as observers in two weeks.

The company quickly responded to our late morning request to meet with a senior UAL leader. Mr. McDonald’s afternoon session allowed the Negotiating Committee to draw some important conclusions. The company clearly assigns some importance to our sessions. I will return to San Francisco tomorrow morning. I have found the observer experience informative, energizing, and interesting. I encourage any members to take advantage of any opportunity to sit in as an observer. While we remain uncertain as to the outcome of these negotiations, the competence and energy of our negotiators encourage me.

I feel the 'Love' now!!!

B) UT
 
Good luck in your negotiations, hopefully this BK crap will not set a precedence for waning contracts and language.
 
Drippy Quill said:
Good luck in your negotiations, hopefully this BK crap will not set a precedence for waning contracts and language.
[post="205412"][/post]​

You comment speaks for itself.

Got 'Scope'?

UT
 
Having been an AMFA observer to a contract negotiation was one of the best things I have done during my aviation career. Very empowering. I was able to bring back first hand accounts to my fellow AMTs.

Thanks to the AMFA and negotiating team for probably the first open negotiations in almost 80 years of UAL.

Best regards,

Johnny Gearpin
 
UT,

I like it that AMFA allows observers in the negotiations, but do you think that its safe for McDonald :ph34r: and his cronies :D . I bet you could have cut the air in there with a knife. I could only imagine the tension and stress the AMFA group was feeling :blink: . In negotiations next time, remind Mr. McDonald that your job won't be SOOOOO good after the cuts because even the LCC's will be paying more than your group will be making.

I know that UniTED is looking to gut the maintenance division even more. I hope AMFA lives by their creed and will NEVER negotiate concessions. Good Luck to you, my hats off to all of you to sit there in the same room with management and not kick the crap out of a few of them :shock: . Stand the line, it's the ONLY thing that will bring dignity and respect from your piers in the industry. :up:
 
UT or JG,

Did Pete McDonald tell you who the exit lenders could be? Or did you get the feeling that exit financing isn't available and that labor is looking to be the exit strategy?
 
mrfish3726 said:
Stand the line, it's the ONLY thing that will bring dignity and respect from your piers in the industry. :up:
[post="205441"][/post]​
of course you say 'stand the line' you are soooo transparent. You want nothing more than to see United gone....and you could care less about any of the employees. Go play with your model planes little boy. We will never take advise from people (I use the word 'people' loosely here) like you.
 
Fly,

Your so F'D in the head, sounds like you won't hold the line and will be a SCAB. What the F%$K are you guys going to do after you give more concessions, lose your pension and then watch fuel prices fall faster than your pay did? UniTED will be racking in Billions again and laughing at people like YOU all the way to the bank.

I think it is wise that AMFA not give into ANY concessions and that UniTED management get their heads out of their A$$ and listen to the unions as to were other cuts can be made. I could give two sh$ts as to wether UniTED survives or not. But I do support unions in not giving into concessions OVER and OVER again to a company management team that will NEVER CHANGE. SO go F yourself FLY, I've tried to be civil and not make personal attacks, but your really being a SLUT! I hope your one of the first ones to get your A$$ layed off there so you can go hang out on COLFAX AVE! :shock:
 
mrfish3726,

If I was the moderator on this forum, I would have no choice but to remove your post and have you expelled from this forum. I do find your foul language and innuendos unbecoming at the very least, and I am troubled by your inability to keep your dialog centered on the issues at hand. Frankly, if your past at United was a difficult experience, it may better for you to stop looking back and leave it to the people that chose to stay and try to make it a better place.

Please, be a real man and delete this trash and extend an apology to Fly.

Sincerely,

Globetrotter11

PS. Fly, as a male I am embarrased on his behalf.




<<<UniTED will be racking in Billions again and laughing at people like YOU all the way to the bank.>>>

The ONLY silver lining in the new proposed agreements is the prospect of sharing in the 15% of pretax income if/when the economic conditions change for the better.
 
But you'll condon what FLY posts here??? F FLY and YOU TOO TROTTER! Fly brought it on herself. And if the moderator will continue to let her slander ME than I will continue to slander the little slut my self.
 
Oil is falling at exactly the time when UAL needs to obtain big concessions. Doesn't make management's job any easier.

Crude under $44, mid-September level
Natural gas falls 8%; energy takes cue from stock data

By Myra P. Saefong, CBS.MarketWatch.com
Last Update: 3:58 PM ET Dec. 2, 2004 [ Page 1 | 2 ]
E-mail it | Print | Discuss | Alert | Reprint | RSS

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) -- Crude-oil futures closed under $44 a barrel Thursday, returning to their mid-September levels, as higher U.S. distillate inventories and near-term forecasts for mild weather throughout much of the nation eased heating-fuel concern.

Yes, UT, there is no doubt that the airlines are all conditioning their financing based on the concessions they want to obtain although in some cases labor has had some say-so in the financing terms. DL, NW, and US have all done it recently.
 
Globtrotter says "<<<UniTED will be racking in Billions again and laughing at people like YOU all the way to the bank.>>>

The ONLY silver lining in the new proposed agreements is the prospect of sharing in the 15% of pretax income if/when the economic conditions change for the better.

!5% isn't jack dude, have you crunched those numbers???? And UniTED will never have 250M to 450M quarters EVER AGAIN. They will be laughing at YOU al the way to the bank. Management is already snickering at you!!!! :rolleyes:
 
mrfish3726 said:
UT or JG,

Did Pete McDonald tell you who the exit lenders could be? Or did you get the feeling that exit financing isn't available and that labor is looking to be the exit strategy?
[post="205463"][/post]​

Fish,

Strategy ? :blink:
UAL has a 'Strategy' ? :p
Is there something I'm missing here ? :blink:

Globtrotter,
Get a clue.... :stupid:

Fly,
Lighten up!!!
You haven't been quite the angel yourself.

JMHO,
B) UT
 
AMFA changed their slogan of "NO CONCESSIONS" to "NO UNWARRANTED CONCESSIONS" months ago.

I also hope they hold fast to the hobbits wishes...but time will tell...good luck!
 
mrfish3726 ( and people of like minds),

Let us compare the the words used by you versus FLY.

FLY said: ""Go play with your model planes little boy""

and mr fish replied with: "Your so F'D in the head, sounds like you won't hold the line and will be a SCAB" "What the F%$K" " heads out of their A$$" "I could give two sh$ts SO go F yourself" "your really being a SLUT! I hope your one of the first ones to get your A$$ layed off there so you can go hang out on COLFAX AVE!"

If this something you can stand proudly by - well, there is not much more to say, is there? You make quite a posterboy for Frontier Airlines, though :unsure:

Globetrotter11
 

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