Amfa Using Their Heads

[Bob Owens]

September 6, 2005
CSX Faces Rail Delays Due to Northwest Mechanic Strike



With limited impact at the airlines due to airport authorities posting the pickets on the fringes of the airport and limited numbers (JFK only had around 15 NWA AMFA members) the AMFA is starting to use one of the few things that the RLA allows.

The RLA allows us to picket other forms of transportation.

Outside of the airline industry unionism still exists and many unions will not cross picket lines.

Hitting CSX is a good move. Now we need to extend that to the LIRR and other forms of transport.

The IAM considered this back when Lorenzo was busting EAL but they chickened out. Perhaps if they had gone ahead with it they would have won.

 

[eolesen]

Dumb move, actually. CSX is one of the largest railroads in/out of New Orleans.

If I were CSX, I'd be telling the general public that AMFA is responsible for disrupting the flow of relief and reconstruction supplies into the area impacted by Katrina.

If that happens, you've just given Congress reason to add the language already in Taft-Hartley concerning secondary boycotts into the RLA. I guess that gives me a new reason to write my senators and representatives....

September 6, 2005
The IAM considered this back when Lorenzo was busting EAL but they chickened out. Perhaps if they had gone ahead with it they would have won.

[post="297368"][/post]​

Not exactly how it actually happened, Bob. The railroads were successful in getting a federal judge to issue a restraining order prohibiting their workers from honoring EAL picket lines set up on railroad property.

 

[Boomer]

Dumb move, actually. CSX is one of the largest railroads in/out of New Orleans.

If I were CSX, I'd be telling the general public that AMFA is responsible for disrupting the flow of relief and reconstruction supplies into the area impacted by Katrina.

If that happens, you've just given Congress reason to add the language already in Taft-Hartley concerning secondary boycotts into the RLA. I guess that gives me a new reason to write my senators and representatives....
Not exactly how it actually happened, Bob. The railroads were successful in getting a federal judge to issue a restraining order prohibiting their workers from honoring EAL picket lines set up on railroad property.

[post="297393"][/post]​

------------------------------------------------------------------

Uh, 'scuse me but what condition are the rail lines into and out of MSY in? I was under the distinct impression that the overwhelming majority of relief into and out of the MSY area is air cargo and trucking, not rail at this time.

Given how certAAin compAAnies were cAAught telling less thAAn the whole truth by a FederAAl Judge in New York about a certAAin AAlleged job AAction; I have no doubt that if Former ModerAAtor were at CSX, or NWA for that matter, many things would be AAlleged

 

[PlayTheOdds]

You couldn’t get over the fence to stand in front of an aircraft so now your going to go and stand in front of a train. Yea, that’s really using you head, the AMFA way. Hey that sounds like a charity for union retards. THE AMFA WAY.

 

[Bob Owens]

Dumb move, actually. CSX is one of the largest railroads in/out of New Orleans.

If I were CSX, I'd be telling the general public that AMFA is responsible for disrupting the flow of relief and reconstruction supplies into the area impacted by Katrina.

If that happens, you've just given Congress reason to add the language already in Taft-Hartley concerning secondary boycotts into the RLA. I guess that gives me a new reason to write my senators and representatives....
Not exactly how it actually happened, Bob. The railroads were successful in getting a federal judge to issue a restraining order prohibiting their workers from honoring EAL picket lines set up on railroad property.

[post="297393"][/post]​

I think the order was against the setting up of pickets, not the honoring of them.
They should have set them up anyway. Unions never got anything by obeying corrupt Judges that use injunctions to circumvent the law.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Dumb move, actually. CSX is one of the largest railroads in/out of New Orleans.

If I were CSX, I'd be telling the general public that AMFA is responsible for disrupting the flow of relief and reconstruction supplies into the area impacted by Katrina.

If that happens, you've just given Congress reason to add the language already in Taft-Hartley concerning secondary boycotts into the RLA. I guess that gives me a new reason to write my senators and representatives....
Not exactly how it actually happened, Bob. The railroads were successful in getting a federal judge to issue a restraining order prohibiting their workers from honoring EAL picket lines set up on railroad property.

[post="297393"][/post]​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ALLRIGHT "E", let me guess,

"Whats with the new avatar" ?????

NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

Uh, 'scuse me but what condition are the rail lines into and out of MSY in? I was under the distinct impression that the overwhelming majority of relief into and out of the MSY area is air cargo and trucking, not rail at this time.

[post="297405"][/post]​

Actually, mainline between BTR and MSY appears to have already reopened this past weekend. Traffic is embargoed without a permit, but the line is usable. The mainline from JAN to MSY via Hammond is expected to be back up and running within a week or so (runs pretty much parallel to I-55 from MEM to MSY).

CSX's mainline between Pascagoula, MS and New Orleans has several bridges which are damaged (it crosses Lake Ponchartrain pretty much where the I-10 bridge was wiped out), but they're interchanging relief supplies and other approved traffic with CNR at Mobile, Memphis, and Jackson, MS.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

You couldn’t get over the fence to stand in front of an aircraft so now your going to go and stand in front of a train. Yea, that’s really using you head, the AMFA way. Hey that sounds like a charity for union retards. THE AMFA WAY.

[post="297412"][/post]​

Thank you playtheodds... if there was ever an expert on retards it is you.

Now, how is it you are able to use your keyboard while under a desk? Hum?

Let AMFA and those willing to fight FOR labor do so. If any "retarded" ideas are needed we will slip them under your management door.

GO AMFA!

 

[TWU informer]

Dumb move, actually.  CSX is one of the largest railroads in/out of New Orleans.

If I were CSX, I'd be telling the general public that AMFA is responsible for disrupting the flow of relief and reconstruction supplies into the area impacted by Katrina. 

[post="297393"][/post]​

No way!

George W. already said this strike will not effect the economy or commerce.

He already has within his ability to stop the strike and order a PEB.

If there is a claim of lack of supplies to the region, it will be a failure on the part of the President of the United States, not AMFA.

Take your anti-amfa blinders and look at the facts.

 

[eolesen]

Take your anti-amfa blinders and look at the facts.

[post="297566"][/post]​

OK. The facts are that there's existing precedent for issuing an injunction against airline workers taking their picket lines to a railroad strictly for the purposes of trying to generate more publicity for their dispute.

It's also a fact that Taft-Hartley has specific language which defines secondary strikes and boycotts as unfair labor practices, while RLA is silent on the issue.

The only speculation I'm making is that labor probably stands to lose more in the long term by holding up rail shipments than they'll gain in short term publicity. It won't take long for someone at CSX Legal to start looking thru the EAL/LIRR/PATH injunction.

You've also got to remember that the former CEO of CSX (John Snow) is now Secretary of the Treasury, and a member of Bush's Cabinet. Think he won't act in CSX's best interest if asked? Especially when there's still questions over GWB's responsiveness to the situation?

There are lot of politicians looking for scapegoats right now, and giving them reason to start looking in your direction is probably unwise.

 

[TWU informer]

OK.  The facts are that there's existing precedent for issuing an injunction against airline workers taking their picket lines to a railroad strictly for the purposes of trying to generate more publicity for their dispute.

It's also a fact that Taft-Hartley has specific language which defines secondary strikes and boycotts as unfair labor practices, while RLA is silent on the issue. 

The only speculation I'm making is that labor probably stands to lose more in the long term by holding up rail shipments than they'll gain in short term publicity.  It won't take long for someone at CSX Legal to start looking thru the EAL/LIRR/PATH injunction.

You've also got to remember that the former CEO of CSX (John Snow) is now Secretary of the Treasury, and a member of Bush's Cabinet.  Think he won't act in CSX's best interest if asked?  Especially when there's still questions over GWB's responsiveness to the situation?

There are lot of politicians looking for scapegoats right now, and giving them reason to start looking in your direction is probably unwise.

[post="297571"][/post]​

There you go again with your it's all about "publicity" management brain fart.

This is not about publicity, it about doing whatever it takes to win and stop the attacks on a profession and the continuous skid of the mechanics standard of living and hands of folks that think like you do.

Publicity be damned, we should shut the entire country's transportation system down. It's about winning not publicity.

Publicity has never put bread on my table.

The day a Federal Injunction gets put in place, along with the day the workers of the world ignore it, is the day you will finally understand.

Look at the "evacuated" Jefferson Parrish down south. Government says OK, "you can go home until Thursday" get your belongings and get back out. Over 20,000 people return with no intention of leaving again, and the Government quickly changes their stance.

One of these days the RLA and Taft-Hartley will be proven worthless when the masses finally get tired of you and your overpaid fat cats screwing the worker into the ground.

 

[Bob Owens]

OK. The facts are that there's existing precedent for issuing an injunction against airline workers taking their picket lines to a railroad strictly for the purposes of trying to generate more publicity for their dispute.

Was it an injunction or a TRO that went unchallenged?The RLA is clear that we can do it. Its one of the things they give us in return for being shackled by the NMB.


It's also a fact that Taft-Hartley has specific language which defines secondary strikes and boycotts as unfair labor practices, while RLA is silent on the issue.

Wrong, the RLA allows it and there has been precedence that unions have used it. If we were under the NLRA we could not do it but then again we could strike any time the company violates the contract too. In the case of NWA they could have walked out as soon as they found out the company had contracted with other companies and was preparing scabs.We would not have to wait to be released by the NMB before striking and we could organize as we choose. For instance if the line mechanics in NY wanted to go AMFA by themselves we could.


The only speculation I'm making is that labor probably stands to lose more in the long term by holding up rail shipments than they'll gain in short term publicity. It won't take long for someone at CSX Legal to start looking thru the EAL/LIRR/PATH injunction.

You've also got to remember that the former CEO of CSX (John Snow) is now Secretary of the Treasury, and a member of Bush's Cabinet. Think he won't act in CSX's best interest if asked? Especially when there's still questions over GWB's responsiveness to the situation?

There are lot of politicians looking for scapegoats right now, and giving them reason to start looking in your direction is probably unwise.

Well actually government stepping in on AMFA would generate more sympathy from a public that is watching their disposable income dissapear into the gas pumps and by an incompetant oil friendly administration that has failed to react to the tragedy in New Orleans.

Even Bill O'Rielly was ripping apart the oil companies yesterday.

 

[eolesen]

It's also a fact that Taft-Hartley has specific language which defines secondary strikes and boycotts as unfair labor practices, while RLA is silent on the issue.

Wrong, the RLA allows it and there has been precedence that unions have used it.

[post="297631"][/post]​

I've read opinions on both sides (pro-labor & pro-management) which say it's silent on the issue, meaning it's neither prohibited nor permitted. You can argue that by being silent, it's permitted. Yet in the EAL/LIRR case, a federal judge decided that it was muddy enough of an issue to issue a TRO. IAM backed off on their picket lines before it was actually argued, so it's probably not a clear precedence either way.

However, there was also a push in 1989 to amend RLA with the secondary strike language from T-H. Don't remember who pushed for this, but it was the week after the EAL strike. It's far easier to add language where none exists than it is to reverse language that's already there.

Since neither you or I are a lawyer, we'll have to wait until there's a ruling that sticks.


And Dave, if strikes are not about publicity, then why have picket lines and pass out leaflets to passers-by?

 

[markkus757]

I agree with MR AA. If the public still flies NW, you're finished. Publicity is what you need to survive. Right and wrong can be argued 'til the end of time, but if no one else shares your view, you will go down. If you decide to make too many enemies, you become a radical group that the majority of America, who happens to be moderate in their views, will shun.

 

[Bob Owens]

Former ModerAAtor,Sep 8 2005, 02:28 AM]
I've read opinions on both sides (pro-labor & pro-management) which say it's silent on the issue, meaning it's neither prohibited nor permitted. You can argue that by being silent, it's permitted.

In a free country unless something is prohibited by law its allowed.

Yet in the EAL/LIRR case, a federal judge decided that it was muddy enough of an issue to issue a TRO. IAM backed off on their picket lines before it was actually argued, so it's probably not a clear precedence either way.

A TRO is a tempoary measure that is put in place to prevent a party from incurring irrepable harm until an issue is settled.

However, there was also a push in 1989 to amend RLA with the secondary strike language from T-H. Don't remember who pushed for this, but it was the week after the EAL strike. It's far easier to add language where none exists than it is to reverse language that's already there.

Well if they add such language then workers under the RLA, all of us, should engage in civil disobedience until the entire law is repealed and we are put under the NLRA. The RLA is very restrictive to workers and as it is it restricts our ability to protect ourseslves from the companies. By removing the few tactical avenues that we have for sdelf help it would leave us no choice but to become lawless.