AMR Execs $13.4m vs. SWA Execs $5.3m in 2008

[jersey777]

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1323772.html


I have not been one to jump on the bandwagon when it comes to the complaints about the PUP payouts each year. My belief has been that complaining about someone elses compensation is not going to get yourself a raise. However, after reading this article, the sheer arrogance of the top brass really astounds me. How anyone can justify AA execs making that much more than a consistantly profitable airline like WN is beyond me. On top of that, management consistantly fights the rank and file with every single contract on the property. Par for the course I guess.

 

[Hackman]

http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/2...xecs-in-08.html

Hard to believe. In 2008 AMR had all multi-millionaire execs in the top 5 and a $2 billion loss, and only SWA CEO Kelly is in the million+ club in pay and bonuses while showing a profit. Shouldn't this be the other way around? One loses billions in 2008 and the other has millions in profits, an $8.1 million difference in pay. Must retain that AMR losing talent I guess.

Let the excuses for the greed of AMR executives begin....

 

[eolesen]

Sure, Gary Kelly is underpaid. But look a little outside the Metroplex bubble, and you'll see what the real comparison is at the big seven airlines (AA UA DL NW US CO WN).

Since you guys love to compare yourselves to the other union contracts, here's a little eye opener for you.... Industry compensation for named executives.

It's the 2007 data, because we don't have SEC filings for all carriers yet.

Name	   Carrier Position   2007 Base	2007 Total   2007 NonVar
Tilton	   UA	   CEO	   850000	  10314769		8%
Steenland	NW	   CEO	   531919	   7731587		7%
Kellner	  CO	   CEO	   712500	   7308334	   10%
Smisek	   CO	   COO	   576000	   6392363		9% 
  <----- not CEO
Parker	   US	   CEO		 5500	   5444996		0%
Brace		UA	   CFO	   556082	   4882317	   11%
   <----- not CEO
Bastien	  DL	   CFO	   421667	   4612928		9%
   <----- not CEO
Arpey		AA	   CEO	   656500	   4601165	   14%
   <----- AA CEO
Tague		UA	   CMO	   556082	   4419591	   13%
Misner	   CO	   CFO	   363300	   4354551		8%
Compton	  CO	   CMO	   363300	   4283262		8%
Moran		CO	   OPS	   363300	   4250873		9%
Cohen		NW	   PLN	   413706	   4076143	   10%
Griffin	  NW	   CMO	   413706	   3771480	   11%
Roberts	  NW	   OPS	   413706	   3565402	   12%
Anderson	 DL	   CEO	   200000	   3329488		6%
Kirby		US	   COO	   490000	   3268327	   15%
Horton	   AA	   CFO	   606000	   3137567	   19%
Macenczak	DL	   CMO	   344256	   3077797	   11%
Garton	   AA	   CMO	   520064	   3064079	   17%
Campbell	 DL	   HR		346843	   3034543	   11%
Hauenstein   DL	   PLN	   349380	   2982129	   12%
Davis		NW	   CFO	   374007	   2724275	   14%
Lovejoy	  UA	   GC		439915	   2410740	   18%
Redding	  AA	   OPS	   478530	   2221431	   22%
Kennedy	  AA	   GC		479053	   2150286	   22%
Kelly		WN	   CEO	   424065	   1301438	   33%
   <----- WN CEO
Kerr		 US	   CFO	   315000	   1176171	   27%
Dhillon	  US	   GC		283250	   1134013	   25%
Howlett	  US	   GA		278100	   1084577	   26%
Ricks		WN	   GC		326729		864106	   38%
Wright	   WN	   CFO	   306375		700499	   44%



Source: 2008 DEF 14A filings with SEC

And, for the record, y'all keep saying WN is consistently profitable.

Bzzzt! Wrong answer.... Maybe you missed it, but the fact is they've had operational losses in three of the past four quarters.

 

[The Goose]

Moderator note: Quoted post has been deleted for ad hominem attack.

Ourpay is more than welcome to go somewhere else to receive what he believes he's worth (if there is a place that stupid). There ought to be companies beating his door down, as wonderful as he is!

 

[eolesen]

Boo Hoo, AA executives are not the highest paid..booo hoooooooooo

I've been waiting for the patron saint of ad hominum and hubris to respond.

What the AA guys are making may be excessive, but it's fairly restrained in comparison to to other money losing airlines.

How do you justify $5M for Doug Parker running second-rate US Airways? Or $7M for the guys running NW and CO? And $10M for Glenn Tilton? Please....

You've pissed and moaned for years about the disconnect between executive pay and front line worker pay.

Seems to me the guys who are truly working for third world wages have a lot more reason to be pissed off than y'all do. You think you got screwed in 2003? Go talk to the guys who used to be working overhaul in Duluth, Detroit, Indianapolis or Oakland....

 

[FWAAA]

The 2008 compensation numbers in the OP ($13.4 million v. $5.3 million) appear to be roughly proportional. AMR produced slightly more than twice the revenue of WN in 2008 ($23.8 billion v. $11 billion). Looks like the five AMR execs work for an airline with many more planes and more than twice the revenue, and were paid roughly proportionally for the difference between WN and AMR. Yawn.

Isn't the level of employee ownership at WN much higher than at AMR? I gotta think that helps moderate (maybe even depress) the pay of the WN execs. Compared to the other six large airlines, WN execs are relatively underpaid.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Ourpay is more than welcome to go somewhere else to receive what he believes he's worth (if there is a place that stupid). There ought to be companies beating his door down, as wonderful as he is!

Well, ya know, Carty has a bunch of jobs right now. And I'm sure he is still chuckling over his retirement settlement, SERP, retention bonuses, etc from AA.

.

 

[Hopeful]

I've been waiting for the patron saint of ad hominum and hubris to respond.

What the AA guys are making may be excessive, but it's fairly restrained in comparison to to other money losing airlines.

How do you justify $5M for Doug Parker running second-rate US Airways? Or $7M for the guys running NW and CO? And $10M for Glenn Tilton? Please....

You've pissed and moaned for years about the disconnect between executive pay and front line worker pay.

Seems to me the guys who are truly working for third world wages have a lot more reason to be pissed off than y'all do. You think you got screwed in 2003? Go talk to the guys who used to be working overhaul in Duluth, Detroit, Indianapolis or Oakland....

This is not about excessive, too much, too little....This is about employees having been sharing the pain for six years now and the executives being exempt. What you think is not excessive or too excessive has nothing to do with it. NO ONE should be receiving any bonus, PUP, lump sum,,,anything until the company is profitable and then restore all employees.

As for the other greedy airline CEO's...you answered your own question. they used the bankruptcy courts to decimate what was left of an already demoralized workforce. So they rewarded themselves at the expense of the employees. AA executives are no better and no different. They screwed us WITHOUT the protection of a bankruptcy court.

And you accuse me of axe-grinding with respect to CEO and executive pay.....So you're saying AA execs are more saintly than the other losers you mentioned?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

This is not about excessive, too much, too little....This is about employees having been sharing the pain for six years now and the executives being exempt.

One would think that a reasonable person would have found a less painful job in 6 years ... ... ...

 

[Hopeful]

One would think that a reasonable person would have found a less painful job in 6 years ... ... ...

Retirement is not too far away for me...I will stay on the job GO BY THE BOOK and keep AA's stock to sewer levels. The best any of us can do is stay on the job, follow the letter and do our best to keep AA's stock price to undesirable levels. The only thing this company understand is loss of passengers which drives AA's value down.
So frugal flyer executive defender, I'm not going anywhere. Gonna do my best to make sure all passengers arrive to their destinations safely. Even if it means a 4 hour delay or cancellation.

 

[wcs]

Frugal,

I thought we addressed this a couple of weeks ago in the "reality check" thread. I explained then about seniority and many employees time investment in American.
Apparently you didn't read, didn't like or didn't understand what I said.
You failed to respond at that time. But you return now with the same tired "..why don't you just quit" reply, rephrased to mock a hard working person like Hopeful.
AA employees gave up a lot six years ago to keep the company out of Chapter 11. They were promised a return on their investment. That promise has been conveniently forgotten.
Yes, many of us still have jobs at AA. Many of us still earn an adequate living. We previously made a very good living along with many others who have lost jobs. But when the many see their sacrifice being used to help reward the few several times over, the many become upset and complain.
Get used to the complaints. Those complaints will be around as long as there are unsubstantiated rewards to the few and the unfulfilled promises to the many.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

WCS & Hopeful; I'm not mocking or taunting you. I'm honestly asking, why not leave for a better job outside the airline industry especially if there apparently are (or were) better opportunities. I love my job too, but would not put up with the BS that you all complain about at AA (and indirectly your union).

Yeah, you have seniority so you don't want to lose that, but to me it tells me that you're still getting paid more than enough to stay around and "suffer". Hopeful on the other hand is on a 12-lemons a day diet to stay bitter until retirement which, depending on how far away retirement is I might somewhat understand.

 

[Hopeful]

What the pro company types usually fail to mention is that unless you're an executive management level person, you don't hop from company to company at the same or higher position and salary. We as mechanics do this job because we enjoy it and we have pride in what we do. It's the selfish greedy attitudes of management who believe that the worker needs to continually give up more and more so they can reward themselves.
Very easy to say if you don't like it, "quit." Very easy but not to someone in their 50s and 60's who gave this company 20, 30, 40 years who are probably a bit more dedicated to their company than the average executive who needs MORE than an increase in salary. No, he or she needs way more in stocks and benefits like country club memberships to stay on. Salary increase is not enough. Bonuses used to be paid for a job well done, but corporate America made bonus pay a special executive perk REGARDLESS of stock performance or company profits..

When you have invested 30 or 40 years with a company, you expect seniority to play a role in staying with a company. We are not white collar people, we are blue collar people. Seniority is the difference between a midnight shift and a day shift. It's the difference between weekends off and Tuesday/Wednesday off. It's the difference between a summer vacation and and a January one. And most of all, it's the difference between getting laid off and not getting laid off.

Just like executive who have a "contract" where they still get bonus pay regardless of company situation, we were all hired with promised of a pension and seniority based bidding.

But unlike management we get force fed changes and the executives are exempt.

 

[Ralph]

:cop: Stop the namecalling and the personal comments now! :cop:

I've just spent 30 minutes of MY valuable time deleting personal comments and attacks from this thread. I know this might be difficult for some of you to understand, but in this great democracy of ours, people have the right to disagree with you and have a different viewpoint.

Instead of posting "must grind axe" over and over, try thinking "I'm not the moderator" over and over. Further occurrences of comments about the poster rather than the post will result in guaranteed time off. Some of you are nearing the point where you might permanently lose your posting privileges on USAviation.com.

Do not let this spill over into other threads either. No further warnings will be given.

 

[Hackman]

The 2008 compensation numbers in the OP ($13.4 million v. $5.3 million) appear to be roughly proportional. AMR produced slightly more than twice the revenue of WN in 2008 ($23.8 billion v. $11 billion). Looks like the five AMR execs work for an airline with many more planes and more than twice the revenue, and were paid roughly proportionally for the difference between WN and AMR. Yawn.

Isn't the level of employee ownership at WN much higher than at AMR? I gotta think that helps moderate (maybe even depress) the pay of the WN execs. Compared to the other six large airlines, WN execs are relatively underpaid.

Using your twisted logic, since AA line AMT's have to be qualified on 5 or 6 different fleet types and larger aircraft, and therefore have more to learn along with more responsibility, they should be payed double what the line AMT's at SWA recieve. Yawn.

PAY FOR PERFORMANCE. AA lost 2 BILLION in 2008, and had to be saved from bankruptcy by an employee bailout in 2003. Therefore no executive PUP, no executive stock, no executive bonuses, no executive gimmies.....only the very large executive base pay, and that's it.

You don't like it? Leave. I am sure we could find some outsourced foreign executives to do the job for much less.