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AMR Execs $13.4m vs. SWA Execs $5.3m in 2008

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Eolsen is correct, however - the workers have gotten hosed in the past. His experience, however, is based on pre-2005 laws. Nobody knows how the post-2005 version will be applied but evidently, it's bad enough for the executives that there have been few large corporate filings since the change.

What about Tribune Company, Fleetwood (RVs), Circuit City, Linens & Things, Levitz and Wickes? Hasn't turned out too well for most of the workers at those businesses.

Here's an article on point:

Changes in the federal bankruptcy code in 2005 significantly tightened deadlines for ailing companies to restructure their businesses, offering them less leeway.

And the changes may force companies to pay suppliers before paying wages or honoring obligations to customers, like redeeming gift cards, said Sally Henry, a partner in the bankruptcy law practice at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom and the author of several books on bankruptcy.

As a result, she said, “it’s no longer reorganization or even liquidation for these companies. In many cases, it’s evaporation.â€￾

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/business/15retail.html

Did you note that part about companies might have to pay suppliers before paying wages? That's ominous.

I'm not interested in being a test case - I'd much rather another airline be the guinea pig, but I don't have the fear of it as I once did.

Line maintenance would probably stay. Those overhaul bases in the middle of the country? Probably not as likely.
 
What about Tribune Company, Fleetwood (RVs), Circuit City, Linens & Things, Levitz and Wickes? Hasn't turned out too well for most of the workers at those businesses.

Here's an article on point:



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/business/15retail.html

Did you note that part about companies might have to pay suppliers before paying wages? That's ominous.



Line maintenance would probably stay. Those overhaul bases in the middle of the country? Probably not as likely.

You Republicans amaze me - I tried to somewhat agree with you twits and you still whine and dig in.
 
On 12/31/02, AMR's total debt was over $22 billion and 2002 total AMR revenues were $17.3 billion. That year, debt was more than 100% of revenue. Not a healthy position for anyone to be in. And no, that debt number does not include future rent or lease payments (as you mistakenly concluded in the other thread).
No but its included in Liabilities as I mentioned in the thread, You convienetly missed that.
 
What about Tribune Company, Fleetwood (RVs), Circuit City, Linens & Things, Levitz and Wickes? Hasn't turned out too well for most of the workers at those businesses.

And what about the workers at Gimbals, Studebaker and EAL? I guess they all should have jumped headlong n a race to the bottom in order to prevent the inevitable.

The fact is workers cant keep a company in business and rarely are wages the culprit in a company's demise-unless the wages are too low.
 
Bring it on.....I would love a bankruptcy under the Obama administration....

Hopeful: I can't believe you're actually that naive! Say it ain't so! Do you honestly believe that the new administration makes a difference? I would gladly bet you that even with the Obama administration the "workers" in an AA/AMR bankruptcy will get hit as hard if not harder than the guys at UA, US, NW, DL, etc. did. Why? First of all AA/AMR management ain't that dumb and second of all - y'all already took it up the cr@pper even without a chpt. 11 re-organization! You almost have a better chance of getting a 'restore & more' contract from AA/AMR than having pres. Obama & his admin spank the AA/AMR management and coddle AA/AMR labor.
 
Hopeful: I can't believe you're actually that naive! Say it ain't so! Do you honestly believe that the new administration makes a difference? I would gladly bet you that even with the Obama administration the "workers" in an AA/AMR bankruptcy will get hit as hard if not harder than the guys at UA, US, NW, DL, etc. did. Why? First of all AA/AMR management ain't that dumb and second of all - y'all already took it up the cr@pper even without a chpt. 11 re-organization! You almost have a better chance of getting a 'restore & more' contract from AA/AMR than having pres. Obama & his admin spank the AA/AMR management and coddle AA/AMR labor.


Whatever it takes to level the playing field, FF....Corporatations have been enjoying the anti-union government policies since Reagan fired the controllers in 1981. We have seen workers' rights, salaries and benefits decimated under the guise of "survival." If you don't think this is class warfare, think again. Now we have an administration who along with the rest of world, see corporate greed and excess taken to astronomical proportions, can you honestly blame labor for their position? I am not naive into thinking bankruptcy is the answer, but if need be, I understand workers will take it in the shorts again, but this time management will not fare so well as in the past. If this company chooses to treat the workers like garbage, than they have to deal with trash like performance in the industry.

AA had better get used to being at the bottom.

Obama already fired the head of GM, don't think inept greedy airline CEO's are exempt.

"You can lead a horse to water,...........you know the rest.
 
Obama already fired the head of GM, don't think inept greedy airline CEO's are exempt.
Yes he did fire Wagoner, but only because GM was not smart enough to say 'no thanks' to taxpayer money. The saddest thing as a result of this is that GM problems are still not solved and won't be until a proper chpt. 11 re-organization. And guess who'll get screwed? UAW. (And the US taxpayers, but that's OK becuase US taxpayers have not been fully tapped yet :lol: ). Anyways, I think companies have learned their lesson borrowing from the Obama administration. Several banks are already saying it was a mistake to do so and look at the debacle with happening with Chrysler.

I still think that although the bankruptcy laws have been modified, labor will still get screwed. Royaly. Especially AA employees because you still have so much to give (so to speak). All a chapter 11 filing will do is make it as easy as taking candy from a child. And contrary to popular belief, I still say that management will walk away unscathed. Unless AA/AMR will be dumb enough to take government money ... ... ...
 
Yes he did fire Wagoner, but only because GM was not smart enough to say 'no thanks' to taxpayer money. The saddest thing as a result of this is that GM problems are still not solved and won't be until a proper chpt. 11 re-organization. And guess who'll get screwed? UAW. (And the US taxpayers, but that's OK becuase US taxpayers have not been fully tapped yet :lol: ). Anyways, I think companies have learned their lesson borrowing from the Obama administration. Several banks are already saying it was a mistake to do so and look at the debacle with happening with Chrysler.

I still think that although the bankruptcy laws have been modified, labor will still get screwed. Royaly. Especially AA employees because you still have so much to give (so to speak). All a chapter 11 filing will do is make it as easy as taking candy from a child. And contrary to popular belief, I still say that management will walk away unscathed. Unless AA/AMR will be dumb enough to take government money ... ... ...


AMR still continues to screw us..You are mistaken about management's walking away unscathed. Just like past republican administration appointees have adopted policy to screw workers in bankruptcy cases, this administration will have it's labor friendly policy force fed down the food chain just like reagan, Bush I and Bush II did.

Don't think that should the government have to intervene with a presidential emergency board under the RLA, that his policy and those under him will not be force fed to some mediator.

You are quite naive. I know you are one of many who like to blame labor for company woes, but thanks to the dog and pony show that has been being aired on tv, even the average American is seeing that the masters of the universe are greatly responsible for this mess.
And before you cite the UAW's piece of the pie regarding the auto industry, I will tell you that THERE ARE NO UNIONS IN ALL THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS. The banking and investment firm management are solely responsible.
 
Yes he did fire Wagoner, but only because GM was not smart enough to say 'no thanks' to taxpayer money. The saddest thing as a result of this is that GM problems are still not solved and won't be until a proper chpt. 11 re-organization. And guess who'll get screwed? UAW. (And the US taxpayers, but that's OK becuase US taxpayers have not been fully tapped yet :lol: ). Anyways, I think companies have learned their lesson borrowing from the Obama administration. Several banks are already saying it was a mistake to do so and look at the debacle with happening with Chrysler.


They're only regret is that the executives cannot continue to lavishly reward themselves for bad performance.
You love to bash labor, but you seem to have no problem with executives getting GUARANTEED bonuses REGARDLESS of performance.
But hey they are better than the rest of us because they wear expensive suits to work.

Remember, there are more executives doing prison time these days than there are union leaders.

Who is more corrupt?
 
Several banks are already saying it was a mistake to do so and look at the debacle with happening with Chrysler.

Only because the banks were ticked off that the Obama administration told them the money could not be used to pay executive bonusses and they would have to account for what they did with the money. What an outrage! Just because I take a government handout to cover for the bad business decisions I made, they have no right to tell me I have to tell them what I did with the money!!!! If the mortgage payment is due on my vacation place in the Bahamas, that's none of their business. Obviously, they are Communists. :shock: :lol: :shock:

Since government money can not be used to pay executive bonusses, I'm quite sure that AMR won't touch it with a ten-foot pole.
 
Don't think that should the government have to intervene with a presidential emergency board under the RLA, that his policy and those under him will not be force fed to some mediator.

You are quite naive. I know you are one of many who like to blame labor for company woes, but thanks to the dog and pony show that has been being aired on tv, even the average American is seeing that the masters of the universe are greatly responsible for this mess.
And before you cite the UAW's piece of the pie regarding the auto industry, I will tell you that THERE ARE NO UNIONS IN ALL THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS. The banking and investment firm management are solely responsible.

I guess we'll have to disagree whether or not the current administration will coddle "airline labor" and spank "airline management". BTW - how did the Clinton administration PEB under the RLA work out for AA employees? I still maintain that I don't think AA is dumb enough to take government money so that it can have the administration dictate to it how to run its business. If AA/AMR does file chapter 11 I have a feeling they will come out better than US, UA, DL, NW, etc. But I've been wrong before.

Regarding the UAW: I've written on here in the past wondering why the airline workers don't have a union like the UAW which has been able to negotiate great compensation for its (low-skilled & low-educated) members at all the carmakers (decent hourly pay + great benefits). They're (UAW workers) are still going to get screwed when more concessions or even a bankruptcy filing are needed in the future.

Good joke about the investment and banking firms being SOLELY responsible for the worst recession since Carter :up: :up: :up:
 
... ... ... the Obama administration told them the money could not be used to pay executive bonusses and they would have to account for what they did with the money.
This is my point. AA would be foolish to take any money from the administration because then the gov. could dictate how to run the airline. This is happening at the banks (offer better rates to people who still won't be able to pay back the loans) and automakers (ditch the SUV and make "green" cars). I'm not saying the Admin doesn't have a right to dictate the terms since they're the sugar daddy - but I think companies have learned, or are starting to learn their lesson.
 
Different industry, different labor rules Eric - you know that. Quit with the misrepresentations already.

What misrepresentation, sir? Are you implying that contract rejection is all that different for RLA vs. Taft-Hartley?...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/11/usc_...13----000-.html

There are clear differences (i.e. closed shop is allowed under RLA, NMB intervenes in S.6 negotiations) that apply under business-as-usual, but how the two are treated under bankruptcy protection appears to be virtually identical.

This isn't a R vs. D issue. I've shown time and time again how more PEBs were called under Democrats, and it hasn't worked in the unions' favor. Search the archives if you want.

Go ahead and say it is retribution time for the Republicans if it makes you feel more secure, and scream about greed and excess all you want to. Just remember when you hear Obama talking about "shared sacrifice," ask yourself why his wife is wearing $500 tennis shoes and why his kids are enrolled in a private school.......
 
What misrepresentation, sir? Are you implying that contract rejection is all that different for RLA vs. Taft-Hartley?...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/11/usc_...13----000-.html

There are clear differences (i.e. closed shop is allowed under RLA, NMB intervenes in S.6 negotiations) that apply under business-as-usual, but how the two are treated under bankruptcy protection appears to be virtually identical.
The difference is under the RLA the courts didnt reject the agreements, they rewrote them and the weak unions we have never challenged them. Nothing in the law gave them this right but they did it anyway. If we were under the NMB the law is clear, if the term of our agreement has expired we are free to self help.
 
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