AMR stock at $2.43/shr

[Jacobin777]

The SOBs shouldn't have lied to us to begin with - their only reason to do so was simply because they could do so with impunity.

Now - if there is, in fact, a restructuring to take place, we workers understand it won't be pretty for us BUT - this time, even though they'll have an infinitely easier go of it, the Centrepork infestation won't escape unscathed as before.

The logic, Jake, is that even though they get US, THEY go down also. I'm sure you don't understand that - get your boss another cup of coffee, will ya?

Management did as much they could have to avoid BK (if they indeed file for BK). While a few of us knew there was going to be a global financial crisis (I advised my clients to get out of financial and housing stock back in 2008), very few people knew the price of oil was going to run up so much. Also, a number of us on this board and other boards have for years been stating that AA's costs are too high and productivity too low-even with the so-called "givebacks" from 2003. To me, those 2003 "givebacks" weren't enough and was still too far what needed to be done.

Now I do fault management for not being aggressive in a number of markets (as well as other mistakes), but we could leave that for another discussion.

If you are hoping for most of management to go, you might be mistaken as most of the current management probably isn't going to go anywhere since they know the intricacies of the company.

You seem to be quite the spiteful person. Such a shame.

Apropos, regarding getting my boss another cup of coffee....since I'm what some people call "MFWIC", I'll decide when coffee needs to be served to the boss.. 😛

 

[Frank Szabo]

Management did as much they could have to avoid BK (if they indeed file for BK). While a few of us knew there was going to be a global financial crisis (I advised my clients to get out of financial and housing stock back in 2008), very few people knew the price of oil was going to run up so much. Also, a number of us on this board and other boards have for years been stating that AA's costs are too high and productivity too low-even with the so-called "givebacks" from 2003. To me, those 2003 "givebacks" weren't enough and was still too far what needed to be done.

Now I do fault management for not being aggressive in a number of markets (as well as other mistakes), but we could leave that for another discussion.

If you are hoping for most of management to go, you might be mistaken as most of the current management probably isn't going to go anywhere since they know the intricacies of the company.

You seem to be quite the spiteful person. Such a shame.

Apropos, regarding getting my boss another cup of coffee....since I'm what some people call "MFWIC", I'll decide when coffee needs to be served to the boss.. 😛

If "spiteful" is defined by you as being upset that we were lied to and hoping the liars get a little of their just due, then I'm rather proud to be "spiteful"

 

[AV1]

The SOBs shouldn't have lied to us to begin with - their only reason to do so was simply because they could do so with impunity.

Now - if there is, in fact, a restructuring to take place, we workers understand it won't be pretty for us BUT - this time, even though they'll have an infinitely easier go of it, the Centrepork infestation won't escape unscathed as before.

The logic, Jake, is that even though they get US, THEY go down also. I'm sure you don't understand that - get your boss another cup of coffee, will ya?

I have been reading this board for awhile, sick and tired of the "Screw this place, screw this, screw that. Ok, tough guy, when the company goes into bankruptcy and you don't have any health insurance, tell that to your wife and kids if you have any. Good luck getting any either in today's world that is less than $1000 a month for any coverage other than ridiculous high deductible. I think the tough guys look out for their family, not the screw this, screw that crowd. Unfortnately, alot of people are going to find out what it is like other than the job they have had for the last twenty years, wake up call.

 

[Overspeed]

Stock is being halted multiple amount of times. This certainly isn't looking good for AA's stock.

Now lets see what the "we want back what we gave up in 2003" has in store.

Doesn't look good for us in the labor unions at AA. Unfortunately we let our "leaders" at the Locals convince enough of us to vote no on the promise that we could get everything back in one swoop.

Thanks Bob, Larry, JR, Chuck, and Ken. Oh wait, maybe Gary at 565 can ride in and save us all. Oh that's right, the Int'l had this planned all along and they are the fall guys.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Looks like AMR is stabilizing around $2/per share which would mean a 30% or so decline for the day. LCC is down about 12% with the rest of the industry in mid-high single digits.
Stocks in Brazil and Mexico, the two largest economies in AA's dominant region of Latin America are off as expectations of demand decreases could cool those economies.
The rise in the US dollar which is tied to European financial concerns makes inbound tourism to the US particularly susceptible in the northern winter when US outbound tourism is a lower factor.
As of their most recent investor updates, AA and UA both planned to grow or at least maintain international capacity stable through the winter.
Airline stocks are recovering somewhat at this moment.

and yes, AV1, I would like to believe that you are more of the norm for AA employees.

 

[Overspeed]

I have been reading this board for awhile, sick and tired of the "Screw this place, screw this, screw that. Ok, tough guy, when the company goes into bankruptcy and you don't have any health insurance, tell that to your wife and kids if you have any. Good luck getting any either in today's world that is less than $1000 a month for any coverage other than ridiculous high deductible. I think the tough guys look out for their family, not the screw this, screw that crowd. Unfortnately, alot of people are going to find out what it is like other than the job they have had for the last twenty years, wake up call.

Sad but true. Unfortunately the wake up call will be at the chop shops they so despise if they stay in the industry.

They can always blame Don, Gless, Little but the fact remains, the fantastic five (Bob, Larry, JR, Chuck, and Ken) got what they wanted. They got the members to vote no and want to get release to strike a near BK company. Great plan!

 

[jimntx]

At 2:04pm it is back up to $2.23/shr. I think this calls for an immediate management bonus, don't you think? I mean up from the $1.75/shr low for the day, we can say that statistically the stock is up 27.42%! Maybe a bonus and a special gift for each member of the executive staff, like a new Rolex.

 

[Jacobin777]

If "spiteful" is defined by you as being upset that we were lied to and hoping the liars get a little of their just due, then I'm rather proud to be "spiteful"

Who's lying? Are you accusing management of lying to you? If so, do prove it.

I have been reading this board for awhile, sick and tired of the "Screw this place, screw this, screw that. Ok, tough guy, when the company goes into bankruptcy and you don't have any health insurance, tell that to your wife and kids if you have any. Good luck getting any either in today's world that is less than $1000 a month for any coverage other than ridiculous high deductible. I think the tough guys look out for their family, not the screw this, screw that crowd. Unfortnately, alot of people are going to find out what it is like other than the job they have had for the last twenty years, wake up call.

Exactly!

Doesn't look good for us in the labor unions at AA. Unfortunately we let our "leaders" at the Locals convince enough of us to vote no on the promise that we could get everything back in one swoop.

Thanks Bob, Larry, JR, Chuck, and Ken. Oh wait, maybe Gary at 565 can ride in and save us all. Oh that's right, the Int'l had this planned all along and they are the fall guys.

Maybe rather than management, it was them who lied to you.

 

[jimntx]

Who's lying? Are you accusing management of lying to you? If so, do prove it.

Maybe rather than management, it was them who lied to you.

Ok, how about management's "PULL TOGETHER. WIN TOGETHER" slogan that they made much of in 2003. After they got the concessions signed, they awarded themselves with bonusses time and time again saying "they were forced to accept the bonusses because it was part of their contracts." This included $9 MILLION in bonusses for just the top executives on 4/15/2008, the same day that they announced the largest (up until that time...we have since exceeded this) quarterly loss in the company's history, $324 million.

Is that what you would call pulling together? If so, you are as big a plutocrat as they are.

 

[commavia]

If it happens, it happens. One way or another, if AA is to be successful and profitable (and thus paying employees' salaries) long-term, things are going to have to change. It's just a question of how long it will take and how painfully it will be. AA cannot grow without being profitable, and it cannot be profitable without the lower costs and flexibility that competitors have achieved through bankruptcy (Delta/United/USAirways) and/or through never carrying some of those legacy/union costs in the first place (Southwest, JetBlue, etc.)

But if - hypothetically - AA follows all of their peers into bankruptcy, some things are likely if not inevitable from the perspective of labor and the unions. AMR would no doubt go for - among other things - as much labor-related cost savings as they can get in bankruptcy to be competitive with what Delta, Northwest, United and USAirways got - and if history is any guide, AA will likely be relatively successful.

Speaking only about labor and the unions (since that is, of course, the focus of this discussion board), that realistically, to me, would tend to imply (among other things):

Layoffs - plenty more of them (although this is hardly anything new)
Outsourcing - more of that too, across various functions
SCOPE - probably loosened considerably to allow not only more regional flying, but on larger planes, and with fewer or no restrictions on which carriers could fly those planes
Long haul flying - loosened
Maintenance - outsourcing of more maintenance work where possible, although if the statements of some on here are true, and there is no spare capacity in the western hemisphere to absorb AA's outsourced work, perhaps AA will just spin off TULE
Pensions - frozen if not dumped on the PBGC entirely
Aircraft - reconfigured with higher density, (hopefully) improved cabins, and reduced staffing

Did I miss anything?

 

[Birdman]

Doesn't look good for us in the labor unions at AA. Unfortunately we let our "leaders" at the Locals convince enough of us to vote no on the promise that we could get everything back in one swoop.

Thanks Bob, Larry, JR, Chuck, and Ken. Oh wait, maybe Gary at 565 can ride in and save us all. Oh that's right, the Int'l had this planned all along and they are the fall guys.

Perhaps you could refresh our memories as to which "leader" claimed "we could get everything back in one scoop". At the time we were faced with a TA that called for unlimited labor loaning within workgroups and 20% SMA's on the docks. That was unacceptable. Since those items are off the table I'm sure their last offer would garner 50% +1 approval. As to your last comment, one has to be pretty naive to not know who's really in charge in the TWU.

 

[Jacobin777]

Ok, how about management's "PULL TOGETHER. WIN TOGETHER" slogan that they made much of in 2003. After they got the concessions signed, they awarded themselves with bonusses time and time again saying "they were forced to accept the bonusses because it was part of their contracts." This included $9 MILLION in bonusses for just the top executives on 4/15/2008, the same day that they announced the largest (up until that time...we have since exceeded this) quarterly loss in the company's history, $324 million.

Is that what you would call pulling together? If so, you are as big a plutocrat as they are.

They didn't award themselves anything. Stop denying the truth. Their "bonus" was based on stock return within a certain period of time which AMR stock did very well it (to the tune of $40/share).

AA's financial condition had improved in 2006-2007. Its when gold start hitting $150/barrel when troubles started to mount. Add to the global financial meltdown and we can see what's happening.

Why can't you admit that AA employees are the highest paid (still) yet have the lowest productivity?

Even if AA's management supposedly "lied, stole, cheated, conned, whatever" to the tunes of millions of dollars, how does that change the situation as of 10-03-2011?

The only thing I see coming from the people of your ilk is nothing but crying, whining and calling people names who don't agree with you... 🙄

 

[jimntx]

They didn't award themselves anything. Stop denying the truth. Their "bonus" was based on stock return within a certain period of time which AMR stock did very well it (to the tune of $40/share).

AA's financial condition had improved in 2006-2007. Its when gold start hitting $150/barrel when troubles started to mount. Add to the global financial meltdown and we can see what's happening.

Why can't you admit that AA employees are the highest paid (still) yet have the lowest productivity?

Even if AA's management supposedly "lied, stole, cheated, conned, whatever" to the tunes of millions of dollars, how does that change the situation as of 10-03-2011?

The only thing I see coming from the people of your ilk is nothing but crying, whining and calling people names who don't agree with you... 🙄

???? Last I heard gold is priced by the ounce. Or, do you not know the difference between oil and gold? Always remember, one is black and smells bad. The bonusses were based on AMR stock compared to a "basket of other airline stocks"--at a time when DL, UA, et all were in bankruptcy. Interestingly, Southwest stock was not in the basket. AMR's stock price could be in the toilet (which it was and is even more so today), but as long as it was floating a little higher than the others, they still got their bonusses. Now, whose "denying the truth." Are they giving you an extra day off for posting your management cheerleading?

AA employees are not the highest paid. I don't know about other employee groups, but Southwest's flight attendants are by several dollars/hr the highest paid domestic flight attendants. They are paid by the "trip"--1 trip=243 air miles (IIRC), but when you convert those trips to hourly pay, they top out at over $50/hr.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Jim's point is excellent... management tied their compensation to the network carrier segment of the industry which was all in BK or about ready to be... not hard to win in that scenario.
.
But it doesn't change the fact that those airlines all managed to restructure and at least today, Wall Street has more confidence in those other companies to successfully navigate the new environment.
.
At 30 minutes before the close of the NYSE, AMR has returned to 35% off for the day, which now makes its market cap less than LCC, which is the 2nd largest decliner in the sector.

Commavia,
the simple fact is that those other airlines are more productive than AMR and are using their mergers to generate revenue better than AA is.
AA imposed pretty significant pay cuts on its people, just as those airlines did and AA average employee wages are not higher than other airlines - but AA is alot less productive. But those other airlines followed through with their restructuring while AA stopped after the pay cuts and got little of the benefit from what the employees sacrificed. Some of those other airline employees are in some part reaping some of the benefit of their companies' restructurings. AA employees have gained nothing and face an even darker future than any of those other airline employees.
.
Pretending that 2003 is history and should just be swept under the rug is beyond naive.
It is now far from clear that AA can successfully restructure in BK or not.

 

[Duke787]

I'm really glad that the TA was voted down, that way we lost out on $9000 in pay alone, at least TUL didn't have to work weekends. Great foresight by the NO voters.....I'm sure we will get a better contract in bankruptcy.