An Idea on Seniority Integration

[twoturnin]

Art your correct---safety is #1--no need to include past events from past merger awards---front window seat is where whining stops and professionalism begins---however out of the cockpit and -----you start looking at the said award----it ain't going to fly as published---at the very least I would think ALPO East would not sign a contract for a good while yet--quite a few folks on the EAST side have said all along the arbitrator has got to find a way to tick both pilot groups off --then somewhere at that point you might find an even handed award--maybe.

 

[A320 Driver]

The question seems to be with the furloughed pilots. DOH, they go way up the list and many AWA pilots get furloughed. A WINDFALL for furloughed pilots, many of whom have already dealt with the interruption in their lives(which AWA had nothing to do with) and moved on. Or, I guess the east wanted them slotted into the DOH location on the list when recalls occur. This would have been another WINDFALL for pilots not even active at the time of the merger and would have perpetuated the lower 3/4's of the ex-AWA pilots position on the bottom of the list. Either way the current, flying, working, innocent of any wrongdoing AWA pilots see their career stagnate for the time it takes to assimilate 1500 some odd furloughed guys.

I don't see how it could have been any other way for those pilots who were actively flying at the time of the merger. All those furloughed guys bought with their seniority was the right to a recall to the bottom of the list at the former, seperate USAirways. They got the same thing in this deal except it was to a much larger airline with high operating margins, growth planned, and a bright future,if only the employees could swallow their anger, forget the past and work together to make this a truly great airline for the employees,the passengers and the investors.

I agree with part of your statement. If you put the furloughed pilots in straight date of hire, length of service, whatever, you put many of them even in the list with flying AWA Captains. I don't think that could float no matter what justification. However, I am surprised that they got NO credit for the time they did put in on the property. If a furloughed pilot flew three years, then he should have been slotted in with three year pilots at AWA.

Had this been done, I don't think it would have caused all this uproar. That and the fact that junior East pilots lost access to the huge attrition that should have been theirs.

A320 Driver B)

 

[phlus2]

I agree with part of your statement. If you put the furloughed pilots in straight date of hire, length of service, whatever, you put many of them even in the list with flying AWA Captains. I don't think that could float no matter what justification. However, I am surprised that they got NO credit for the time they did put in on the property. If a furloughed pilot flew three years, then he should have been slotted in with three year pilots at AWA.

Had this been done, I don't think it would have caused all this uproar. That and the fact that junior East pilots lost access to the huge attrition that should have been theirs.

A320 Driver B)

As another layman here - why don't they just do seniority listing by your home city? In essence, each city - Philly, Phoenix etc. that is a crew base would have it's own seniority list. Then, if you want to transfer to another city, you know where you will end up on that city's seniority list. Since most bases are either old AW or US employees - wouldn't that have solved some of the problem?

 

[A320 Driver]

As another layman here - why don't they just do seniority listing by your home city? In essence, each city - Philly, Phoenix etc. that is a crew base would have it's own seniority list. Then, if you want to transfer to another city, you know where you will end up on that city's seniority list. Since most bases are either old AW or US employees - wouldn't that have solved some of the problem?

Actually that has been floated around. Put fences up East and West and eliminate the crossover for a while. There are problably a lot of good ideas that never see the light of day because people get their mind made up about what's fair and what's not. Clearly, judging by the outcome, the decision to cram a length of service proposal down the throat of the East Merger Committee, even when they KNEW it would not float, was stupid. They did not want to go forward with this argument...it was forced upon them by threat of recall (getting canned).

A320 Driver B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

the fact that junior East pilots lost access to the huge attrition that should have been theirs.

A320 Driver B)

The problem with factoring in attrition expectations is that you have to know what the future holds to factor it in accurately, and no one knows what the future will hold. How much good did the attrition do the furloughees or junior active pilots between 1991 and 1998? Or 2002 and 2006? Did every retirement result in an upgrade?

The future could bring anything from shrinkage such that not only would the furloughees not be recalled but further furloughs occur, to growth enough that attrition becomes a minor factor in recalls and advancement. Or anywhere in between.

As it is, the furloughees and junior pilots may get the benefit of all attrition, not just that on the East list, if the award goes into effect- it depends on future events. In exchange, they have more pilots above them than they do on the East list. If anyone can guarantee future events, it can be determined which would be better for those folks.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

The problem with factoring in attrition expectations is that you have to know what the future holds to factor it in accurately, and no one knows what the future will hold. How much good did the attrition do the furloughees or junior active pilots between 1991 and 1998? Or 2002 and 2006? Did every retirement result in an upgrade?

The future could bring anything from shrinkage such that not only would the furloughees not be recalled but further furloughs occur, to growth enough that attrition becomes a minor factor in recalls and advancement. Or anywhere in between.

As it is, the furloughees and junior pilots may get the benefit of all attrition, not just that on the East list, if the award goes into effect- it depends on future events. In exchange, they have more pilots above them than they do on the East list. If anyone can guarantee future events, it can be determined which would be better for those folks.

Jim

Good point Jim, but even the arbitrator was willing to look out 4 years.

A320 Driver B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Good point Jim, but even the arbitrator was willing to look out 4 years.

Only in the narrow case of the existing widebodies (or replacements). Given what seems to be his underlying reasoning for the entire list - jobs brought to the table - it makes sense to set aside those jobs for East pilots. Absent the merger, the West folks had no widebodies or orders to bring to the table, so the only question was how long to reserve those jobs for East pilots - how far into the future was he willing to predict that East would have been flying widebodies and West not without the merger. He picked 4 years.

Jim