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Another fine example of Corporate GREED

Since it's always management's fault when there are losses, then by association, it is management's fault when there are profits, thus to the victor go the spoils, right?

And yes, that comment is unbridled sarcasm, since it's foolish to believe you can blame management or labor individually for the situation a company finds itself in. In the case of GM, it was a mutually assured destruction that took many years to occur.

Other companies seemed to realize the error of the Big Three earlier on, and took steps to prevent it from occurring. Most notably amongst the auto industry are the US workers at Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, etc. who entered the industry on the heels of GM's massive plant closings and layoffs in the 1980's.



You could easily draw parallels between the second generation auto manufacturers with the second and third generation air carriers (i.e. who were founded from 1970 onward). And, as Bob Owens and others love to point out about WN, they're not under-compensated despite managing to avoid the Ghosts of Contracts Past.
Actually, it's not kept quiet at all. It's included as part of the SEC filings if you bother to dig into the detail.

If AMR were privately held, as TWA was during the early Icahn years, then you'd have no way of knowing all the secret handshake type deals that are made with various execs, so beware the next time you hear someone discussing the benefits of taking the company private.

Personally, I don't really care what any one executive has negotiated, because it's a fact that if their peers in other industries are able to ask for a certain level of compensation, it's probably appropriate that they be able to get to a midpoint of parity either in salary dollars, benefits, retirement funds, or a combination of all three. It may seem unfair, but there's always going to be a double standard when you're one of a couple hundred people capable of holding a particular position vs. one of tens of thousands.


The problem is the spoils going to the victor even when everyone else is taking massive paycuts

Thats is why nmorale suxs and no one really gives a rats arse about AArogant Airlines and weather or not it goes belly up :lol:

The way I see it without AA finding a job making 20 K less is no big deal. Tell that to the boys making six figures and see how they adjust 😉
 
The way I see it without AA finding a job making 20 K less is no big deal. Tell that to the boys making six figures and see how they adjust

The only problem with your argument is that the boys making six figures who leave are often walking into jobs making six or seven figures...
 
The only problem with your argument is that the boys making six figures who leave are often walking into jobs making six or seven figures...

The problem with your argument is that you condone the coporate greed
Everyone else is taking paycuts to keep the ship from sinking
File ch 11 and lets gut the perks and the bonuses :shock:
 
I don't condone corporate greed any more than I condone union greed. Smart corporations find a way to strike a balance between the two.

But it's also common sense that you don't want the lowest bidder to run your company, otherwise you're going to wind up like US Airways and Northwest. And you'd have to be an utter fool to think that employees at AMR have had it worse than their peers at any of the bankruptcy sisters....

You might not respect them, but pretty much every analyst on the street agrees that AMR has one of the best management teams running an airline right now, bested only by Southwest and perhaps Continental (although post-Bethune they have lost some of the traction they have shown). And that's reflected pretty clearly in AMR's stock performance over the past six months. You won't see Gary Chase, Glenn Engle, Mike Linnenberg or any of the other institutional analysts upgrading a company if they don't have faith in the leadership and their business model. You can try to discredit the independent analysts, but they're right on the money more often than not.

And, for the record, filing Ch.11 didn't prevent senior execs at US Airways or United from continuing to get their current six figure salaries, even while they were arguing in court that it was essential to throw out the union contracts, get court imposed pay-cuts, and dump their pensions on the PBGC.

I agree it's extremly poor leadership, but the court doesn't care about that.
 
Former ModerAAtor
I don't condone corporate greed any more than I condone union greed. Smart corporations find a way to strike a balance between the two.

But it's also common sense that you don't want the lowest bidder to run your company, otherwise you're going to wind up like US Airways and Northwest. And you'd have to be an utter fool to think that employees at AMR have had it worse than their peers at any of the bankruptcy sisters....

Are you saying that those companies paid their executives a lot less than AMR? Funny,I was under the impression that they used to pay more, at least thats what management used to tell us. By the way common sense would also dictate that you dont have your airplanes fixed or operated by the lowest bidder, instead of a possible BK you could have a big smoking hole in the ground, which is worse?
 
AMR has one of the best management teams running an airline right now

You give these bums way to much credit. But that is a good way to suck your way to the top.
You should give the credit to the unions who gave away the farm so it could be business as usual for the execs

And that's reflected pretty clearly in AMR's stock performance over the past six months.[/quote]

The only reson why AMR stock is up is because the price of fuel is down.


And, for the record, filing Ch.11 didn't prevent senior execs at US Airways or United from continuing to get their current six figure salaries

Another example of corporate greed
They rape the employee and continue making the money like its business as usual.
 
You give these bums way to much credit. But that is a good way to suck your way to the top.
You should give the credit to the unions who gave away the farm so it could be business as usual for the execs

The only reson why AMR stock is up is because the price of fuel is down.

Another example of corporate greed
They rape the employee and continue making the money like its business as usual.

What a predictable thread.

First, you rant about Delphi's outrageous severance and somehow try to connect it to AMR.

AMR isn't in bankruptcy and doesn't have a several hundred million dollar severance program for hundreds of executives.

What the hell does this have to do with AA?

Sounds like someone just wants to rant about management.
 
The only reson why AMR stock is up is because the price of fuel is down.

Right. And fuel is only getting cheaper for AMR.

Fuel is one piece, but revenue is the bigger reason that AMR and CAL are being upgraded at the same time AAI and LUV were being downgraded, despite the fact that AAI and LUV have more fuel hedges in place than AMR and CAL do.

But why believe me? Here's what three of the more respected analysts had to say about it:

Gary Chase, Lehman, 10/31: "AMR revenue firing on all cylinders. We see strength in nearly every pocket of the network."

Gary Chase, Lehman, 10/31: "We still believe AMR is the best positioned legacy carrier from a fundamental perspective (including those in bankruptcy), and we see a lot of earnings potential for the company in the years ahead."

Jamie Baker, JP Morgan, 10/25: "I feel better about the industry's near-term prospects and equity potential upside than at any time this decade."

David Strine, Bear Stearns, 11/2: "Capacity adjustments, including reductions on U.S. domestic routes, should boost unit revenue next year, and a major beneficiary will be American Airlines' parent AMR".
 
Right. And fuel is only getting cheaper for AMR.

Fuel is one piece, but revenue is the bigger reason that AMR and CAL are being upgraded at the same time AAI and LUV were being downgraded, despite the fact that AAI and LUV have more fuel hedges in place than AMR and CAL do.

Good points. One key reason that AMR is on the rise is that AA was able to increase its 3Q2005 mainline yield by an impressive 8% and its mainline RASM was up an astonishing 12.6%, outpacing its CASM increase of 9.7%. Fuel was up, but so were fares.

AA was more successful at raising fares last quarter than just about any other airline, and that's good news.
 
What a predictable thread.

First, you rant about Delphi's outrageous severance and somehow try to connect it to AMR.

AMR isn't in bankruptcy and doesn't have a several hundred million dollar severance program for hundreds of executives.

What the hell does this have to do with AA?

Sounds like someone just wants to rant about management.

I thought it was management who put AMR where it is today.
Sadly it does not say much for management. Either at Delphi or AMR.
BTW FWAA See you at the next round of union concessions.
 

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