It is just a matter of voting with what you can live with. If there is no value to you in the LBFO over the term sheet, vote no. I am voting yes for a number of reasons. Starting with preserving my work rules. I especially like the idea of adding pay protection. No more am I going to be at the mercy of mother nature, mechanicals, or labor shenanigans without being paid for doing my job. That is the key element to me. My job doesn't just depend on me showing up to work and I'm sick of losing my days off to make up for time lost due to things beyond MY control.
APFA to send AA's last best offer to members for a vote
- Thread starter FWAAA
- Start date
Previous VBRs have offered unlimited passes.
You can say it. Marxists are running the country (Eccl 10:2).
I’ve been at AA longer than that. Your job options shouldn’t get worse after 20 some years have passed.
We don’t need to gut flexible work rules that were put in place for a reason.
Because there are many females in the job (or at least that is what passengers would prefer
The carpet is being pulled out from under us as work group. I don’t think we should let it happen for the next generation of FAs. Decisions made today will affect many in the future.
I’ve spent time in commuter apartments with FAs who were new moms. They cried themselves to sleep because they never get home to see their kids.
Some in this company could care less about their plight. These same people want their hand held on their way to hell (1 Co 6:9).
We need to fight these new rules--if there is anyone left to fight. God knows APFA isn’t doing their job.
Is that your way to say that you don’t give a damn about the next generation of FAs?
If that helps you reconcile the voices in your head, sure. Those future generations aren't paying my bills today. So you do what you need to do and I'll do what I need to do. All while NOT telling you what to do. Maybe if I quote a psalm here you will be happier.
I'll vote no only if you pay my bills. Does that work for you? Maybe then your child can be one of the future generations of f/a's that will be better off because of your big stand.
No problem with any religion, just your sudden grandstanding with it. Other than that, have at it. Apparently you need someone to help you through life. More power to you.
No problem with any religion, just your sudden grandstanding with it. Other than that, have at it. Apparently you need someone to help you through life. More power to you.
All religions are equally true?
Payday someday (Pr 6:16,17; 8:12, 13, 16:5, 21:4).
When you’ve finished being hysterical, I’d love to talk about this vote.
jimntx
Veteran
Preservation of work rules? Yeah, you'll be pay protected until fatigue-related IOD takes you off the insurance and payroll. You do realize that under the LBFO, there is nothing other than the "16 day on-duty cap" to prevent them from scheduling you, 3on,1off,3on,1off all month long? Actually, it is within the "rules" for them to schedule you 6on, 1off, 6on, 1off, 4on, then 8off--or similar combinations. You won't have to worry about picking up extra trips to make up for lost time. There won't be any time in your schedule for adding trips. And, since everyone else will be working similar schedules, there won't be anyone with some days off to pick up the trips you want to drop.
kirkpatrick
Veteran
There are religion sites for discussion of this issue.
Yes. If the merger goes through everything will change, but it will take years. What if it doesn't go through?
We're not voting for or against a merger. We're voting for or against a contract proposal. The LBFO or the 1113. I'll be voting yes.
MK
Rcvd from DFW AMT
APFA vice president endorses American Airlines’ last, best and final offer to flight attendants
By tmaxon
tmaxon@dallasnews.com
10:35 am on August 1, 2012 |
August 1, 2012
Dear Fellow Flight Attendants,
My initial reaction to the Company’s Last Best Final Offer (LBFO) was, “Oh, hell no!” and at first I thought I could never endorse this for membership ratification. But after careful study of the potential harm and future devastation which would occur if the offer were rejected, and the clear improvements to the 1113 term sheet, my position changed. Among the key points for me was the scheduling provisions which will be lost forever with a vote to reject. The more I read and understood the offer and the realities we face as a union, the easier my YES vote became to make and recommend.
I want more than anything to see a merger with USAirways take place during bankruptcy. It is the best plan for the flight attendants and our company. According to USAirways’ CEO Doug Parker, the fastest way to accomplish a merger is by approving this offer. Having said that, the LBFO represents the best insurance policy available to us in the event that we do not achieve a merger. The absolute worst case scenario will be realized if we reject this offer and Horton keeps control of the Company. We simply cannot afford that.
In virtually all previous airline bankruptcies, labor groups secured agreements similar to our LBFO and as you will read below there is an important reason for this. If we deliver a NO vote, the judge has two options: rule in our favor on the Company’s Section 1113 motion, or grant the Company their motion and legal permission to abrogate our contract. History shows that Courts favor the bankrupt companies in these motions almost 100 percent of the time.
If American exits bankruptcy we will resume negotiations with management. But where will we start? Since the Court will likely allow the Company to gut our entire contract, will we be starting from scratch, using the Section 1113 term sheet from March 22, the LBFO, or our pre-bankruptcy numbers? The Company has said they want to stick with the March 22 term sheet, which as you remember was an insult to our profession. But, there is no law that says they can’t sink even lower than the term sheet and knowing their tactics and the money they’ve been shelling out to bankruptcy lawyers, management can probably can stretch this argument for at least a few years. Let me repeat that: if we reject the LBFO and the Court grants the Company’s 1113 motion, management may be able to impose a contract even worse than the March 22 term sheet. All they would need is a decent economic reason, like a sudden spike in oil prices, to make the argument that more cuts are needed. We’d fight it in court, but the system favors companies like American so heavily that we can’t afford the risk. There is a better option and it is the LBFO.
If we reject the LBFO, and the Court grants the Company’s motion, our contractual status will closely resemble our Agents’. If we reject the LBFO, and the Company exits bankruptcy, we will be without a contract, without an agreement, and living under implemented language.
More to the point, we all know how effectively management dragged their feet during negotiations for the four years leading up to bankruptcy. Count on this behavior continuing as they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. To make matters worse, although we were once at the top of the National Mediation Board’s priority list, we have now been bypassed by other airlines’ labor groups and their negotiations.
On the other hand, our colleagues at TWU have ratified an agreement similar to our LBFO and no matter what the Company cannot later alter it. Their deal may be concessionary and tough for them to swallow, but it is still a ratified agreement and like our LBFO, it is a whole lot better than the term sheet they were handed in March.
If we reject the LBFO, you and I are at the mercy of the Company. Based upon our history and management’s behavior and actions I say, “Oh, hell no!” to this option and will vote YES for the Last Best Final Offer.
In Unity,
Marcus Gluth
Flight Attendant, IMA
Vice President, APFA
APFA vice president endorses American Airlines’ last, best and final offer to flight attendants
By tmaxon
tmaxon@dallasnews.com
10:35 am on August 1, 2012 |
August 1, 2012
Dear Fellow Flight Attendants,
My initial reaction to the Company’s Last Best Final Offer (LBFO) was, “Oh, hell no!” and at first I thought I could never endorse this for membership ratification. But after careful study of the potential harm and future devastation which would occur if the offer were rejected, and the clear improvements to the 1113 term sheet, my position changed. Among the key points for me was the scheduling provisions which will be lost forever with a vote to reject. The more I read and understood the offer and the realities we face as a union, the easier my YES vote became to make and recommend.
I want more than anything to see a merger with USAirways take place during bankruptcy. It is the best plan for the flight attendants and our company. According to USAirways’ CEO Doug Parker, the fastest way to accomplish a merger is by approving this offer. Having said that, the LBFO represents the best insurance policy available to us in the event that we do not achieve a merger. The absolute worst case scenario will be realized if we reject this offer and Horton keeps control of the Company. We simply cannot afford that.
In virtually all previous airline bankruptcies, labor groups secured agreements similar to our LBFO and as you will read below there is an important reason for this. If we deliver a NO vote, the judge has two options: rule in our favor on the Company’s Section 1113 motion, or grant the Company their motion and legal permission to abrogate our contract. History shows that Courts favor the bankrupt companies in these motions almost 100 percent of the time.
If American exits bankruptcy we will resume negotiations with management. But where will we start? Since the Court will likely allow the Company to gut our entire contract, will we be starting from scratch, using the Section 1113 term sheet from March 22, the LBFO, or our pre-bankruptcy numbers? The Company has said they want to stick with the March 22 term sheet, which as you remember was an insult to our profession. But, there is no law that says they can’t sink even lower than the term sheet and knowing their tactics and the money they’ve been shelling out to bankruptcy lawyers, management can probably can stretch this argument for at least a few years. Let me repeat that: if we reject the LBFO and the Court grants the Company’s 1113 motion, management may be able to impose a contract even worse than the March 22 term sheet. All they would need is a decent economic reason, like a sudden spike in oil prices, to make the argument that more cuts are needed. We’d fight it in court, but the system favors companies like American so heavily that we can’t afford the risk. There is a better option and it is the LBFO.
If we reject the LBFO, and the Court grants the Company’s motion, our contractual status will closely resemble our Agents’. If we reject the LBFO, and the Company exits bankruptcy, we will be without a contract, without an agreement, and living under implemented language.
More to the point, we all know how effectively management dragged their feet during negotiations for the four years leading up to bankruptcy. Count on this behavior continuing as they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. To make matters worse, although we were once at the top of the National Mediation Board’s priority list, we have now been bypassed by other airlines’ labor groups and their negotiations.
On the other hand, our colleagues at TWU have ratified an agreement similar to our LBFO and no matter what the Company cannot later alter it. Their deal may be concessionary and tough for them to swallow, but it is still a ratified agreement and like our LBFO, it is a whole lot better than the term sheet they were handed in March.
If we reject the LBFO, you and I are at the mercy of the Company. Based upon our history and management’s behavior and actions I say, “Oh, hell no!” to this option and will vote YES for the Last Best Final Offer.
In Unity,
Marcus Gluth
Flight Attendant, IMA
Vice President, APFA
The videos on the hotline link helped but they did not say a lot. Will the court accept either the AA plan with the LBO accepted for example, or the US Air plan? We will have either plan and then emerge from bk? Even if voted in, is it possible that the L.B. (God awful) O. will not go through if the stand alone plan is rejected?
silverbird007
Senior
Bottom line is AA has to compete with airlines with no retirement plans, lower labor costs, horrible work rules etc. there are thousands of people out there who would line up to take our jobs for half of what were making. Of course they wouldnt last long ,but AA would have a steady stream of low cost labor with a high turnover rate, AA knows this. Most other US airlines do trans-con turns, no downtown layovers, etc. we have had it good for a long time, even with the '03 concessions. I know AA could do better but they dont have to. The unions really cant do much even if they try. Sometime in the last decade we lost the ability to strike, AA knows this. I think alot of things happened under the radar, while we were not paying attention. Most of the government (especially the US house of representatives) is now anti-union, we could change that if we educate ourselves before we vote. Im voting yes (mostly) because we need some seniority movement, im a 14 year fa, i could hold better lines 1 year out of training then i can now. Its time for a change. When i hear fas who havent worked a trip in years something has got to give. I may end up leaving this job because i like dropping a trip or two every month and i know i may not be able to do that, but im willing to take a chance. If we vote no, and the term sheet is imposed AA could drag it out another 6 years maybe longer. The last thing I want is to merge with US Airways because their seniority will permanently keep me back to the bottom again. Jetblue, Alaska anybody but US. Just my opinion.
