Are AA Labor wages competitive?

[flyhigh]

How can you say the 401 was a bad idea after saying lack of pensions is bad at WN? Their people are retiring in great shape.
Also, I'd much rather be incharge of my money. Look how much has been lost while in the control of the company or its appointed manager for the fund. With a 401 you can move it from poor performing areas to more stable areas. Pensions not only loose a lot, but when they become underfunded...and we're seeing this now at US, AMR, UAL, DAL, etc., it has the potential to bring the whole company under. That's just creazy talk. The reason most 401 are performing poorly is because people stick the money in fund A, and forget about it. If you're not proactive, you're going to lose. Hire a financial analyst or broker to advise you, but don't say it's someone else's fault that you didn't move the money.

 

[spacewaitress]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 4:48:55 PM AAmech wrote:

Its not going to be a pretty sight 40yrs from now to see armies of pennieless Seniors rummaging thru garbage cans to survive.
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[/blockquote]
I thought I was the only one projecting that far ahead...but it isn't because of the airlines, it's because of dumbya's administration.

And it ain't gonna be seniors...just look at all the debt he's loading up on the backs of our kids...hmmm, sorta reminds me of another popular republican president.

 

[wings396]

Over at US, we would have been glad to work under the WN contract with their wages and workrules. This however was not an option due to the way the company is structured compared to WN. For one we have less a/c, but more that 2x the amount of mechanics they do. Productivity is a big issue and if we did everthing their way, we would lose much of the headcount all the way up to the pilots. We must also keep in mind that WN operates ONE basic a/c type....their business model is night and day compared to ours. If the Majors can and will re-structure themselves, we can all earn the same or more as WN does...only with less of us on the payroll.

 

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
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On 2/2/2003 12:33:22 AM flyhigh wrote:

How can you say the 401 was a bad idea after saying lack of pensions is bad at WN? Their people are retiring in great shape.
Also, I'd much rather be incharge of my money. Look how much has been lost while in the control of the company or its appointed manager for the fund. With a 401 you can move it from poor performing areas to more stable areas. Pensions not only loose a lot, but when they become underfunded...and we're seeing this now at US, AMR, UAL, DAL, etc., it has the potential to bring the whole company under. That's just creazy talk. The reason most 401 are performing poorly is because people stick the money in fund A, and forget about it. If you're not proactive, you're going to lose. Hire a financial analyst or broker to advise you, but don't say it's someone else's fault that you didn't move the money.
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[/blockquote]

I'm not saying its bad they have a 401k. I'm saying its bad that they are trying to say that a 401k is a legitimate substitute for a pension instead of a supplement to a pension. And you are way off about pension losing "way more". The average pension far outperforms the average 401k! AA's pension was performing so well they lowered full retirement to age 60! Even a collapsed pension like the US Pilots will deliver almost 30K a year for life! How much will a collapsed Enron 401k bring?

By the way my own 401k was very well diversified and age appropriatly diversifed. The problem is the funds in my plan STINK!!! And by law, I'm stuck with the funds in this plan. This was the eye opener to me (as someone who used to belive in 401k's) because if I had to solely depend on this for retirement there would be no Retirement.

 

[RV4]

From what I have witnessed, they actually start about $7.00 as building cleaners and then upgrade to pose as mechanics.

 

[Buck]

Of course they are. This thread was started by me to obtain wages of each workgroup at all airlines in the industry. It has turned into a wages plus work rules. So you might as well post the starting wage for the OSM at AA. It will show that AA pays the lowest industry average for the mechanics.

 

[Fritz]

Are starting wages relevant to this thread? AA starts its mechanics at 10.15 per hour. They are called OSM's (overhaul shop mechanics).

 

[Fritz]

What I meant was the starting pay for someone working on the aircraft and signing it off. How does that (10.15) compare to other airlines? Also compared to other airlines in financial trouble?

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/2/2003 808 PM RV4 wrote:

From what I have witnessed, they actually start about $7.00 as building cleaners and then upgrade to pose as mechanics.
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[/blockquote]
If you remember, it was also a rescue plan for the AA "Security Forces" TUL. The low paying jobs were prime upgrades for the guards and the ladies that left the Credit Union etc..

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/2/2003 7:39:45 PM Fritz wrote:

Are starting wages relevant to this thread? AA starts its mechanics at 10.15 per hour. They are called OSM's (overhaul shop mechanics).
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[/blockquote]
OSM's do not work on the aircraft. They work on parts Seats, Sidewalls, coffee makers, galleys etc....
They do not sign for the actual airworthiness of the aircraft or engine. The final authority and responsibility is in the hands of the A&P mechanic. Most OSM's if not all, do not have A&P licenses.