Army Sucides highest in 20 years

[Cosworth]

WASHINGTON — The number of Army suicides increased again last year, amid the most violent year yet in both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

An Army official said Thursday that 115 troops committed suicide in 2007, a nearly 13 percent increase over the previous year's 102. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because a full report on the deaths wasn't being released until later Thursday.

Full Article

Like Rumsfeld said, you go to war with the military you have, not the one you want to have.

Seems W was all gung-ho about sending the troops out, but did not even pause to think for a moment of what to do with all the troops who come back injured and traumatized. SOB need to buy a vowel.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Speaking of Government Suicides,......I can think of.....a 1/2 dozen, that I WISH had happened in the "situation room" at "1600"...............( GWB/DC/CR/DR/KR/ and L(s)L ) :down: :down: :down: :down:

 

[EastUS]

WASHINGTON — The number of Army suicides increased again last year, amid the most violent year yet in both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Seems W was all gung-ho about sending the troops out, but did not even pause to think for a moment of what to do with all the troops who come back injured and traumatized. SOB need to buy a vowel.

Well..One sure-fire way to improve troop morale's to continuously crucify them for such heinous acts as ...and/or such unthinkable horrors as shooting a stupid book/koran/etc, passing out christian-themed coins, and generally seeking to make even their frequently (IED/etc) threatened lives yet even completely insane.... yeah...that's the ticket!...Just what everyone needs within a treacherous and lethal enviornment!

I reasonably question anyone's actual agenda, that so cheerfully seeks punishment for the above-noted "horrors" (shooting a stupid book/koran/etc), but is magically, otherwise so "concerned" with soldiers' well-being......=BS.

 

[Redbird]

Seems like only part of the story of suicides is being told and one has to wonder why. (DUH...)

Yes, suicides in the military are up HOWEVER rates in the military are still LOWER than the rate of suicide for comparable groups of young men who are NOT in the military.

http://www.sprc.org/stateinformation/PDF/s...tional_data.pdf

Seems that you bought exactly what the media was trying to portray although the rest of the story refutes the image they are trying to portray.

In this article of 2005, the rate of suicide in the military was about the same as in the civilian ranks.
http://hamptonroads.com/node/67641

Yes, the loss of one life in our military is cause for concern. Politicizing that death is worse.

 

[Cosworth]

The RAND group did a study:

RAND Study

It's a long read (I have not read the whole thing) but from what I have read, it disagrees with your assessment.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well..One sure-fire way to improve troop morale's to continuously crucify them for such heinous acts as ...and/or such unthinkable horrors as shooting a stupid book/koran/etc, passing out christian-themed coins, and generally seeking to make even their frequently (IED/etc) threatened lives yet even completely insane.... yeah...that's the ticket!...Just what everyone needs within a treacherous and lethal enviornment!

I reasonably question anyone's actual agenda, that so cheerfully seeks punishment for the above-noted "horrors" (shooting a stupid book/koran/etc), but is magically, otherwise so "concerned" with soldiers' well-being......=BS.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NONE of "this" would even be an Issue, ..If we had not Illegally entered into this PHONEY war.(Think IRAQ)...............NONE OF THIS !

Even I backed EL-CHIMPO, with a lil' SLACK to take out Saddam, but after that................"OUT" !!!

But as Scot McC..is showing us, Bush DOESN'T possess the brain cells to admit he was wrong !

As the old Motor Oil commercial went....."You can pay me now, or you can PAY LATER"

From Dirty DICK...Cheney on Down, if the Democrat's control all three houses of Government, those MF-ers lives will get VERY Interesting, starting on 1/21/09 !

 

[Redbird]

The RAND group did a study:

RAND Study

It's a long read (I have not read the whole thing) but from what I have read, it disagrees with your assessment.

Thank for the link. Interesting read...

On page 174 the RAND study notes that suicide is among the highest causes of death in the US with numbers around 10-13 per 100,000. The study also notes that veterans may face double the rate of suicides compared to the civilian population. It does not say how that conclusion was derived and does not say what groups were included in the civilian population. We know that white males commit suicide more than other groups and while women attempt suicide more often, men are more successful (if one can use that term). But then the study speaks specifically about veterans and not just active duty personnel which was the basis for the story in this week's news .

Again, any death is a huge loss and I am astounded that some of the troops are doing 3 and 4 tours (I did one full tour in SEASia and two short tours). But this was clearly IMHO an attempt to use the data for political purposes. And to use one's death for such is heinous

Also, thank you for the response devoid of epithets and insults.

 

[Cosworth]

Thank for the link. Interesting read...

On page 174 the RAND study notes that suicide is among the highest causes of death in the US with numbers around 10-13 per 100,000. The study also notes that veterans may face double the rate of suicides compared to the civilian population. It does not say how that conclusion was derived and does not say what groups were included in the civilian population. We know that white males commit suicide more than other groups and while women attempt suicide more often, men are more successful (if one can use that term). But then the study speaks specifically about veterans and not just active duty personnel which was the basis for the story in this week's news .

Again, any death is a huge loss and I am astounded that some of the troops are doing 3 and 4 tours (I did one full tour in SEASia and two short tours). But this was clearly IMHO an attempt to use the data for political purposes. And to use one's death for such is heinous

Also, thank you for the response devoid of epithets and insults.

I do not like the deaths of soldiers being used for political gains either but administrations do it on a daily basis. This one rolled out Tillman until it was shown that they covered up how he actually died. They have prohibited showing the caskets coming in the states under the guise of protecting the families. I for one was deeply touched when I saw the nbow infamous picture of the caskets lined up in the belly of the transport plane. All governments will trot out the successes of the troops (as they should) but they tend to hide ans bury the failures (as I fell they should not). Were it not for 'political gain' we may never have known of the material shortages that troops were enduring just to name one thing.

I think war has changed quite a bit since the last "real' one we had. WWII was fought on a different level. It was a world war with a clear aggressor. Since then, it seems there are strong arguments that most if not all of the subsequent wars were political or at least had a substantial political component. Gulf I was to liberate Kuwait. Alot of good that did us. Gulf II (W's temper tantrum) IMO was entirely political.

One more thing. W supports his war using politics so what does he expect in return?


I try and argue on the same level as my adversary, if they fight clean so do I. Thank you as well.

 

[Veritas]

Well..One sure-fire way to improve troop morale's to continuously crucify them for such heinous acts as ...and/or such unthinkable horrors as shooting a stupid book/koran/etc, passing out christian-themed coins, and generally seeking to make even their frequently (IED/etc) threatened lives yet even completely insane.... yeah...that's the ticket!...Just what everyone needs within a treacherous and lethal enviornment!

Can you please explain how alienating the Iraqi civilian population and indiscriminately killing innocent civilians, including women and children, help the US achieve its goals in Iraq? It seems to me that such brazen behavior only prolongs this national nightmare.

 

[Redbird]

Can you please explain how alienating the Iraqi civilian population and indiscriminately killing innocent civilians, including women and children, help the US achieve its goals in Iraq? It seems to me that such brazen behavior only prolongs this national nightmare.

Please cite incidents of indiscriminate killing of women and children and second, if you can, cite where it is policy.

Women and children like other non-combatants are killed in a war zone. It is unfortunate and sad. But for a comparison of directives NOW and THEN, do a bit of research on the bombing of Dresden Germany in WWII or LeMay's policy for bombing the cities of Japan and how LeMay took the B-29s down to low altitude for better results in the fire bombing.

Or study up on Bomber Harris of the RAF.

 

[Veritas]

Please cite incidents of indiscriminate killing of women and children and second, if you can, cite where it is policy.

Who said it was policy? These are rogue acts by renegade American servicemen that EastUS would like to pretend were justified or did not take place.

Shall we start with Haditha?

The Haditha incident started when a roadside bomb struck a Marine convoy on Nov. 19, 2005, killing a Marine and injuring two others. A squad led by Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich then killed the 24 Iraqis.

Wuterich is slated to be court-martialed on charges such as voluntary manslaughter and aggravated assault. Prosecutors said he and other Marines killed the Iraqis out of revenge.

And:

Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.

How about Hamandiyah? There were a few others that you can search on your own.

These incidents do not advance our goals in Iraq.

 

[delldude]

These incidents while tragic and shocking happen in war.
If you were walking on two feet during Vietnam,there were atrocities in that arena too.
And if you research.....its happened to our boys, too.....remember Somalia?
You can go on and on....War is hell for a reason.

And not advancing our goals......I thought it was a failure over there...thats what Pelosi said.

 

[Redbird]

Who said it was policy? These are rogue acts by renegade American servicemen that EastUS would like to pretend were justified or did not take place.

Shall we start with Haditha?

Who said it was policy? You did in a way when you commented on 'indiscriminate killings" as though our soldiers target civilians on a routine basis. You have retreated in this last post by rendering it acts of 'renegade soliders'. I suspect you have never been in the combat theatre and never been in a situation where you can't tell the fish from the sharks.

And you bit the easy bait by going for Haditha when not all has been presented in that incident. Even the blustery Jack Murtha has had to back off his fuming and strutting.

But you are correct, when civilians are killed, it hinders out goals and intent.

Oh, and who is 'East US'. Is that some left wing lingo? Or a new term for the 'vast right wing conspiracy'?

 

[Cosworth]

Oh, and who is 'East US'. Is that some left wing lingo? Or a new term for the 'vast right wing conspiracy'?

He is a poster here on WC. He has some interesting views. Do a search and enjoy.

 

[KCFlyer]

These incidents while tragic and shocking happen in war.
If you were walking on two feet during Vietnam,there were atrocities in that arena too.
And if you research.....its happened to our boys, too.....remember Somalia?
You can go on and on....War is hell for a reason.

That's so right. But what makes this war different is - it shouldn't have been waged. The war that should have been waged and manned and stuck with was the war in Afghanistan. Bush and company had a hard on for Saddam from the day he said "So help me God" in January, 2001. They used the terrorist attacks of 9/11 to stroke their hard ons for Saddam...even though Saddam had nothing to do with those attacks, this administrations case of blue balls was so severe that soon Saddam was a bigger threat and needed to be stopped more than the group and leader of that group who actually DID do something to us. So the blood of the collateral damage in Iraq rests on G.W. Bush's hands. Wish I could be a fly on the wall at the Pearly Gates when W presents his case for getting in.