Arpey- How We Do Things Differently

[Vortilon]

View attachment 8834

You are so sure of yourself that you don't even check your facts...View attachment 8835

See that black line? That's AMR stock. See those lines below AMR? That's DAL, UAUA, and LUV. The one line above AMR? CAL, and they've always trended higher than AMR.

Outperform? Doesn't look like it to me.

Well now, that is a good old fashioned beat down...meow

 

[737823]

I'm shocked... shocked, I say, that you're not finding anything of substance from AA, and that someone from IAA might have a biased view of the situation, or perhaps doesn't understand US law...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think a Category 2 or 3 rating impacts the ability for AA to codeshare on BA or IB -- the restriction on Cat 1 has to do with US airlines codesharing on flights operated by airlines based in the country with the sub-Cat 1 rating.

How has AA communicated this to general public? Why haven't they revealed exactly what exchange they had with IAA and why they aren't interested in serving the market. I personally know individuals in leadership roles at IAA along with a former IAF and LY captain who share the same story-different from AA's and by the way one happens to be a U.S. citizen. :unsure:

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is anything other than Category 1 does not allow code sharing by US based carries, hence why AA no longer codeshares with LY (although they still have the FF partnership and baggage interline agreement). This also does not allow new service routes to/from the subject country, but it does not require existing carriers to suspend or alter current routes

I'm sure you've probably not done a full salary comparison of all those workgroups, but let's just say you're wrong. Management (mid level on down) has traditionally been paid about 15-20% less than their peers at UA, DL, CO, and even US. This I know for a fact because I interviewed people from those airlines when I was at AA, and without exception, none of them were willing to work for AA
And since you probably don't know it, AA contracts out ramp, baggage & passenger service in most stations with fewer than six flights a day. Just about all overnight aircraft cleaning is contracted out, and baggage service at all of the hubs is contracted out. When you start getting into stations with more than seven flights a day, the difference between contracting and insourcing isn't as great as you'd think.

Fair enough, and notice I said perhaps some mid-level management but I think it is an accepted fact that AA's in-flight, pilots, ground service employees are among the highest paid. Contrary to many of the employee posters here, I agree AA could attract better talent in management if they offered more competitive salaries.

View attachment 8834

You are so sure of yourself that you don't even check your facts...View attachment 8835

See that black line? That's AMR stock. See those lines below AMR? That's DAL, UAUA, and LUV. The one line above AMR? CAL, and they've always trended higher than AMR.

Outperform? Doesn't look like it to me.

Your graph didn't appear so I'm not sure which timeframe you are comparing but I looked back one year from today and found % annual change:
AMR: (7.16)
DAL: 32.13
UAUA: 178.06
CAL: 52.07
LUV: 22.91

Perhaps I should have been more specific and identified the timeframe as a one year comparison (09/14/09-09/13/10). I reckon a comparison from the restructuring agreement in 2003 would be a better comparison. Nonetheless, I had the intention of conveying to Hopeful that stock performance and employee wages aren't directly correlated-there are many other considerations including earnings, condition of company balance sheet, subjective biases, market trends, etc involved. Besides, since then several of the above airlines have filed BK which skews the comparisons in addition to multiple tickets (i.e. DL was formerly DALRQ; filed in 2005 had stock offering in 2007)

Josh

 

[eolesen]

What did or has AA communicated to the general public about no longer serving Eugene, OR or Sydney NSW, or Stockholm?...

Please.... Do your own research next time. Here's the exact quotes from the Dallas Business Journal in March 2001....

Thursday, March 8, 2001
American Airlines confirms it won't fly TWA to Tel Aviv


FORT WORTH -- American Airlines confirmed reports Thursday it will drop TWA's single daily flight from New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport to Tel Aviv, citing Trans World Airline's losses on the route for the past two years.

The announcements comes a day before the Fort Worth-based carrier is expected to learn from a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge whether it submitted the winning bid for TWA. American Airlines upped its ante from $500 million to $742 million Wednesday night in the face of a rival, $650 million bid from former TWA owner and chairman Carl Icahn.

The Fort Worth-based carrier disputed what it called "recent speculation" that TWA made money on the Israel flight during the past two years. American said it would be liable for severance obligations, which could total between $9 million and $18 million.

American said it considered revenue projections, market forecasts, projected yields, employee contracts, network structure and traffic demand when making the decision.

That was almost a month before the deal closed, and before the court approved the sale.

TWA cut their losses a couple days early in order to avoid having an aircraft impounded.

End of story. Get over it. Move along. Nothing to see...

 

[Veritas]

However it's clear, AA... spited their Israeli employees.

American Airlines did not have any Israeli employees because it never flew there.

As eolesen explained, AMR chose not to take over the Tel Aviv route when it bought select assets of Trans World Airlines, Inc., in bankruptcy court proceedings. As a matter of fact, TWA dropped the JFK-TLV route several weeks before the bankruptcy sale closed, when the Israelis were about to seize a TWA 763 aircraft.

Whoever gave you that information in Tel Aviv has poor or no understanding of U.S. bankruptcy laws and proceedings.

If you want accurate information, look up the case of In re TWA, No. 01-00056, from the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware.

 

[aafsc]

First of all, Israeli judge, Varda Alshech, issued an injunction prohibiting TWA, not AA, from removing, selling or transferring ownership of any of TWA's Israel based assets.

Secondly, TWA was a U.S. registered company which was liquidated in legal proceedings that took place in the Delaware Bankruptcy Court. The Israeli workers petitioned the Delaware Court for their severance and pension benefits. However, their request was denied and that denial was upheld by then U.S. Third Circuit Court Judge and currently U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito.

Thirdly, AMR (AA parent company) bought only select assets of TWA and offered employment to most of its U.S. based employees (who for the most part ended up at the bottom of the seniority list and were furloughed shortly thereafter).

Thus, even though AMR would have been on the hook for the Israeli workers' severance pay had it acquired TWA, it is not since did not buy TWA.

I don't believe that a lien was ever issued against AMR. If, and that is a big if, such a lien was issued, the Israelis are merely trying to blackmail AMR into paying severance pay owed by a liquidated entity. Israeli politicians and TWA's former Israeli employees have a poor understanding of U.S. Bankruptcy laws which control the fate of U.S. based corporations. The only reference that I can find is that then Israeli Transport Minister Ephraim Sneh threatened to sanction AA until the Israeli TWA employees received their severance pay. That is never going to happen.

There are plenty of lucrative destinations for AA to fly without being subject to extortion.

This subject was extensively discussed on this bulletin board back in 2006 in this thread.

שנה טובה

In the article pertaining to the Israeli judge, it says that the debt to the employees was $13 million but it appears that they were able to seize $200 million in inventory and other assets that were in the country. One would think that this would be more than enough to satisfy the claims of the Israeli employees along with other outstanding debts with the leftover being repatriated to the TWA estate in the United States.

 

[upsilon]

In the article pertaining to the Israeli judge, it says that the debt to the employees was $13 million but it appears that they were able to seize $200 million in inventory and other assets that were in the country. One would think that this would be more than enough to satisfy the claims of the Israeli employees along with other outstanding debts with the leftover being repatriated to the TWA estate in the United States.

Where does it appear that TWA had $200mm in assets in Israel. To me that is a ludicrously high number for office and ground ramp equipment - the equivalent of several airplanes. AA only paid $742mm for all of the assets in the USA that it wanted.

 

[aafsc]

I agree that $200 million does seem to be an excessive amount to have in a country where there is only one flight per day. It is possible the article could be in error but the amount given in the next to last paragraph is $200 million.

 

[Veritas]

Consider the source that the spare parts and ground equipment in Tel Aviv were worth $200 million. It is a claim made by TWA's Israeli workers.

I cannot find any reference on the web. However, my recollection is that the only major asset that TWA had in Israel was an office building at 76 Hayarkon Street in Tel Aviv across the street from the American Embassy. Then TWA chairman, Gerald Gitner, flew to Tel Aviv and closed a deal to sell it to Arkia a couple years before the final bankruptcy filing.