Binary explosives
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Garfield1966
Veteran
For every mouse trap someone will build a better mouse. I still maintain that cutting off their source of revenue will be the most effective method of shutting them down.
Tug McGroin
Senior
Napolitano On Failed Terror Attempt: "The System Worked"
By sheer luck the binary explosive device failed to explode yet “the system worked�!
Like the rest of this administration, she’s a certified amateur, on-the-job-training bureaucrat.
By sheer luck the binary explosive device failed to explode yet “the system worked�!
Like the rest of this administration, she’s a certified amateur, on-the-job-training bureaucrat.
dapoes
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And how do you propose that be accomplished again? Specifically without stepping on the the toes of the bleeding heart liberals?
Garfield1966
Veteran
Wow. TSA and DHS have gone off the deep end and the airlines are following them over. I wonder how El-Al is dealing with this?
One thing I do not understand is why they have not started the use of dogs at security check points. As far as I know they can be trained to smell for various substances (I wold think even the OP's stuff gives off some sort of scent. At the very least it seems like it would help expedite the screening process.
I used to enjoy flying. Now, it is something I dread and avoid at all costs.I'd rather drive or take a .... crap, no buses or trains are even practical. That is one of the things I really miss about Europe.
New Security measures.
One thing I do not understand is why they have not started the use of dogs at security check points. As far as I know they can be trained to smell for various substances (I wold think even the OP's stuff gives off some sort of scent. At the very least it seems like it would help expedite the screening process.
I used to enjoy flying. Now, it is something I dread and avoid at all costs.I'd rather drive or take a .... crap, no buses or trains are even practical. That is one of the things I really miss about Europe.
New Security measures.
SparrowHawk
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What we have now is in effect "Security Theater". There is little difference between what we had pre 9/11 at the checkpoints except a 45,000 employee stronng federal agency that has demonstrated time and again their general incompetence. If we're buying incompetence then let's get a better price like we had with private security.
OTOH, if you actually desire to make things more secure then you need a full blown security apparatus such as the FBI or other agency dedicated to developing a network of counter intelligence professionals who are unrivaled. A true Clandestine corp of operatives with lot's and lots of plausable deniability.
If you take a look at the plots that have been thwarted, they have beeen thwarted well before anyone got to an airport.
Garfield is correct as it is a never ending game of well Cat & Mouse and the way to win that game is through constant infiltration, espionanage and information gathering on the Cat's and Mice involved.
While we don't need to succumb to the "Terrorist Behind every Tree" Paranoia, it would be most helpful to have cameras on the forest and folks capable of walking through said forest, ferreting out the vermin
OTOH, if you actually desire to make things more secure then you need a full blown security apparatus such as the FBI or other agency dedicated to developing a network of counter intelligence professionals who are unrivaled. A true Clandestine corp of operatives with lot's and lots of plausable deniability.
If you take a look at the plots that have been thwarted, they have beeen thwarted well before anyone got to an airport.
Garfield is correct as it is a never ending game of well Cat & Mouse and the way to win that game is through constant infiltration, espionanage and information gathering on the Cat's and Mice involved.
While we don't need to succumb to the "Terrorist Behind every Tree" Paranoia, it would be most helpful to have cameras on the forest and folks capable of walking through said forest, ferreting out the vermin
Garfield1966
Veteran
Something else that needs to be taken into account is the fact that this guy boarded on foreign soil. We have no authority on how a different country runs their airport security. unless we want to do it like El-Al where they have their own security people at any location they pick up passengers, this is a problem that won't stop.
I don't understand most of the measures put in place for on board the aircraft. Once the bomb is on board, you are pretty much screwed. Apparently the only thing that prevented the shoe bomber and this guy from succeeding was incompetence in the use of the bomb.
I don't understand most of the measures put in place for on board the aircraft. Once the bomb is on board, you are pretty much screwed. Apparently the only thing that prevented the shoe bomber and this guy from succeeding was incompetence in the use of the bomb.
SparrowHawk
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I've flown in and out of Schipol (AMS) and my impression is that security there is pretty good. The Dutch Government has been generally of the notion that good security is good for business.
I heard Obama crowing about 'looking into our blah blah blah'....I have a couple suggestions:
Water board the little clown.
Take out the 'known' training camps in Yemen and elsewhere.
Free the Seals....
Period.
Water board the little clown.
Take out the 'known' training camps in Yemen and elsewhere.
Free the Seals....
Period.
SparrowHawk
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I tend to agree in principle with everything except waterboarding. We can certainly use this incident to do a little Global Housecleaning.
What we have to remember is that you don't promote American Ideals by promoting or participating in Un American activities.
The Uninted States has a long history of defending itself from attack and a massive retaliation is in my mind keeping with the traditions of our founding fathers.
Thoma Jefferson said it well.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.
Applied then, still applies today
"
Merry Christmas from Al Qeida......just wait till next time.
Water boarding wouldn't be cool especially if one of your loved ones went up
in a 'poof' over the pond would it?
Screw them....Royally.
Being as it does not draw blood....if you notice WB is a good fit here........
Water boarding wouldn't be cool especially if one of your loved ones went up
in a 'poof' over the pond would it?
Screw them....Royally.
Being as it does not draw blood....if you notice WB is a good fit here........
Garfield1966
Veteran
Aside from the issue of torture being against everything the US stands for. Great fit.
I would be curious to see a poll between people who served in combat verses those who have not and see what the results are. Just from this forum, it would seem that those who have served are less likely to be in favor of employing torture than those who prefer being an arm chair quarterback and who have never served.
I can easily think of 4 decorated veterans (one of whom was a POW) in civil service who are against it as well.
I would be curious to see a poll between people who served in combat verses those who have not and see what the results are. Just from this forum, it would seem that those who have served are less likely to be in favor of employing torture than those who prefer being an arm chair quarterback and who have never served.
I can easily think of 4 decorated veterans (one of whom was a POW) in civil service who are against it as well.
Don Smith
Veteran
KEEP GITMO!
Former Gitmo detainees investigated in airline bombing plot
From Mike Mount, CNN Senior Pentagon Producer
December 29, 2009
Washington (CNN) -- U.S. counterterrorism officials are investigating possible links between the attempted Northwest Airlines bombing and two former Guantanamo Bay prisoners who say they are leaders in an al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist group based in Yemen, U.S. officials told CNN on Tuesday. The organization, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, has claimed responsibility for the attempted bombing, and the alleged bomber, Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab, was in Yemen this month. The two self-proclaimed leaders of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula were released from the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in 2007 and sent to Saudi Arabia, according to a Department of Defense report on former detainees at Guantanamo who have returned to terrorism activities.
The unclassified version of the Defense Intelligence Agency report was released publicly last April and highlights former detainees who have carried out or are suspected of having carried out terrorist attacks after being released from the prison. According to the report, Abu Sufyan al-Shihri was released from Guantanamo in November 2007 and sent to Saudi Arabia; Mazin Salih Musaid al-Alawi al-Awfi was released in July 2007 and sent to Saudi Arabia. The report says the two men released a video last January announcing their leadership in the new organization, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. That announcement led to questions about how many other former Guantanamo detainees may be planning to carry out terrorist attacks.
Pentagon officials have not released updated statistics on recidivism, but the unclassified report from April says 74 individuals, or 14 percent of former detainees, have turned to or are suspected of having turned to terrorism activity since their release. The data represent the most recent publicly available statistics on former detainees tracked by military and other U.S. government intelligence agencies. Of the more than 530 detainees released from the prison between 2002 and last spring, 27 were confirmed to have engaged in terrorist activities and 47 were suspected of participating in a terrorist act, according to Pentagon statistics cited in the spring report. Since the report's release, the total number of released detainees has risen to about 560, Pentagon officials said. Pentagon statistics indicate that there was a slight increase in the release of detainees from Guantanamo at the end of 2008, and the number of released detainees turning to or suspected of turning to the insurgency is almost double, from 7 percent a few years ago, Pentagon officials familiar with the information told CNN. The report said that between December 2008 and March 2009, nine former detainees were added to the confirmed list; six of them had been on the suspected list. The Pentagon categorizes as "suspected" any former Guantanamo detainee about whom significant reporting indicates involvement in terrorist activities. The report categorizes as "confirmed" any former detainee identified as involved in terrorist activity by a preponderance of evidence -- such as fingerprints, DNA, photo match or reliable or well-corroborated intelligence. "What's clear is we are not seeing recidivism on the decline," said a defense official who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman declined to say what officials think is the reason for the increase, but said the United States monitors released detainees as well as it can.
The Pentagon's report on recidivism identified almost 30 former detainees confirmed or suspected to have gone on to fight, including al-Shihri and al-Awfi, and includes examples of what these men did after their release.
The report also cited others:
• Abdullah Saleh Ali al-Ajmi, who was released in 2005 to Kuwait. In April 2008, he blew himself up in Mosul, Iraq, killing a number of Iraqis.
• Mohammed Ismail was released from the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay in early 2004 and returned to Afghanistan to be set free. Within four months, the U.S. military said, he was recaptured in Afghanistan attacking U.S. troops there, with paperwork that said he was a Taliban member in good standing.
• Abdullah Gulam Rasoul, who was released from Guantanamo in December 2007 and set free in Afghanistan, has become a powerful Taliban military commander in southern Afghanistan, and the United States suspects he is responsible for several attacks on U.S. forces there, the military said. A senior U.S. military official last May said he believes Rasoul is using his Guantanamo experience to build on his "rock star status" among the Taliban. The U.S. military had no updated information on the status of Rasoul for this story.
The Pentagon report also cited men sent home to Morocco who were later captured and accused of recruiting people for al Qaeda in Iraq; two men freed in Saudi Arabia who became leaders in a new al Qaeda organization there; and a Russian sent home who later was arrested for playing a role in a gas line bombing.
Former Gitmo detainees investigated in airline bombing plot
From Mike Mount, CNN Senior Pentagon Producer
December 29, 2009
Washington (CNN) -- U.S. counterterrorism officials are investigating possible links between the attempted Northwest Airlines bombing and two former Guantanamo Bay prisoners who say they are leaders in an al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist group based in Yemen, U.S. officials told CNN on Tuesday. The organization, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, has claimed responsibility for the attempted bombing, and the alleged bomber, Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab, was in Yemen this month. The two self-proclaimed leaders of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula were released from the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in 2007 and sent to Saudi Arabia, according to a Department of Defense report on former detainees at Guantanamo who have returned to terrorism activities.
The unclassified version of the Defense Intelligence Agency report was released publicly last April and highlights former detainees who have carried out or are suspected of having carried out terrorist attacks after being released from the prison. According to the report, Abu Sufyan al-Shihri was released from Guantanamo in November 2007 and sent to Saudi Arabia; Mazin Salih Musaid al-Alawi al-Awfi was released in July 2007 and sent to Saudi Arabia. The report says the two men released a video last January announcing their leadership in the new organization, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. That announcement led to questions about how many other former Guantanamo detainees may be planning to carry out terrorist attacks.
Pentagon officials have not released updated statistics on recidivism, but the unclassified report from April says 74 individuals, or 14 percent of former detainees, have turned to or are suspected of having turned to terrorism activity since their release. The data represent the most recent publicly available statistics on former detainees tracked by military and other U.S. government intelligence agencies. Of the more than 530 detainees released from the prison between 2002 and last spring, 27 were confirmed to have engaged in terrorist activities and 47 were suspected of participating in a terrorist act, according to Pentagon statistics cited in the spring report. Since the report's release, the total number of released detainees has risen to about 560, Pentagon officials said. Pentagon statistics indicate that there was a slight increase in the release of detainees from Guantanamo at the end of 2008, and the number of released detainees turning to or suspected of turning to the insurgency is almost double, from 7 percent a few years ago, Pentagon officials familiar with the information told CNN. The report said that between December 2008 and March 2009, nine former detainees were added to the confirmed list; six of them had been on the suspected list. The Pentagon categorizes as "suspected" any former Guantanamo detainee about whom significant reporting indicates involvement in terrorist activities. The report categorizes as "confirmed" any former detainee identified as involved in terrorist activity by a preponderance of evidence -- such as fingerprints, DNA, photo match or reliable or well-corroborated intelligence. "What's clear is we are not seeing recidivism on the decline," said a defense official who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman declined to say what officials think is the reason for the increase, but said the United States monitors released detainees as well as it can.
The Pentagon's report on recidivism identified almost 30 former detainees confirmed or suspected to have gone on to fight, including al-Shihri and al-Awfi, and includes examples of what these men did after their release.
The report also cited others:
• Abdullah Saleh Ali al-Ajmi, who was released in 2005 to Kuwait. In April 2008, he blew himself up in Mosul, Iraq, killing a number of Iraqis.
• Mohammed Ismail was released from the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay in early 2004 and returned to Afghanistan to be set free. Within four months, the U.S. military said, he was recaptured in Afghanistan attacking U.S. troops there, with paperwork that said he was a Taliban member in good standing.
• Abdullah Gulam Rasoul, who was released from Guantanamo in December 2007 and set free in Afghanistan, has become a powerful Taliban military commander in southern Afghanistan, and the United States suspects he is responsible for several attacks on U.S. forces there, the military said. A senior U.S. military official last May said he believes Rasoul is using his Guantanamo experience to build on his "rock star status" among the Taliban. The U.S. military had no updated information on the status of Rasoul for this story.
The Pentagon report also cited men sent home to Morocco who were later captured and accused of recruiting people for al Qaeda in Iraq; two men freed in Saudi Arabia who became leaders in a new al Qaeda organization there; and a Russian sent home who later was arrested for playing a role in a gas line bombing.
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