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Bundy. why no interest?

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Ms Tree said:
Never been a fan of the panthers. If they violated the law, put them in jail.
 
Who cares if you or I were fans? They were/are American citizens with certain Rights. What degree of force would you have deemed appropriate to "put them in jail" if they "violated the law"? Don't dare even begin to suggest any reasonable response might depend on the severity of any actual crime...since you've been advocating potentially deadly force for just keeping cattle from grazing in the frikkin' desert! 😉
 
Ms Tree said:
.....Pragmatically it makes sense not to clog the already over burdened court system.
 
Good point, especially since we must needs keep courts clear for far more serious matters....like cattle grazing and tortoises...? 😉
 
You keep saying it's just "cattle grazing in the frikkn desert" but anytime you flaunt the law again and again, after being presented with opportunity after opportunity to comply, for the better part of 20 years, it is going to escalate things, isn't it? Or do you think if the sheriff just continued to say "pretty, pretty please?" he would have said, "Okay, here you go"
 
AdAstraPerAspera said:
You keep saying it's just "cattle grazing in the frikkn desert" ....
 
Yep, because that IS the actual reality of it.  "but anytime you flaunt the law again and again" insanely presupposes that all laws are perfect instruments that should never be in even any way questioned or changed. Jim Crow laws immediately come to mind here, and while we're at it; why not hang some more innocent women in Salem for "witchcraft"?...No point in allowing women to vote, since that was once against the LAW!... I have it! let's start a "War on Drugs" and proudly lock up the highest percentage of ANY even halfway civilized country's population for non-violent crimes, instead of spending even a portion of that huge expense on education and treatment instead? Sigh! How 'bout we, as a society, start to show even at least some slight degree of actual sanity here, instead of what we've for too long done?... And about gay marriage? = Fuggedabboudit! That too, violated previous LAW! Let's all just keep doing our very best to inflict our own little world views on everyone else, and make darn sure to tell them all just exactly how they should live, since that's always worked out so well for everyone, hasn't it? Let's also make equally sure that we completely forget the notion of being in this country together, and instead polarize and despise each other anytime we get the chance. When/if anyone disagrees with you, "a stubborn, redneck, racist pinhead", and you would like to see them arrested or perhaps even killed by some agency, well, I suppose losing all concerns for their Rights, safety and even very lives "makes sense", since they don't see the world through your eyes...Or does it really?
 
Nevermind, just kindly explain to me the/ANY personal harm any citizen's yet suffered from those cattle grazing on "public" lands?...Much less that's worth some massive, very dangerous (and hugely expensive) show of armed force/dogs/snipers/etc?...Can anyone?
 
AdAstraPerAspera said:
Pay attention southwind, he has been asked innumerable times, both politely and firmly, over the course of umpteen years, to abide by the letter of the law and just flaunted it in the local authorities faces. I think it finally became to clear to any sensible guy with half a braincell that he is a stubborn, redneck, racist pinhead who was never going to peacefully acquiesce. Be real.
And "AGAIN" I will say, if he's been asked nicely, over the years, why not arrest "HIM" and keep him in jail until he complies vs. sending "ARMED" Bureau of Land Management peeps ( one of the most ridiculous things our government allows) out to slaughter his cattle?
 
EastUS1 said:
Nevermind, just kindly explain to me the/ANY personal harm any citizen's yet suffered from those cattle grazing on "public" lands?...Much less that's worth some massive, very dangerous (and hugely expensive) show of armed force/dogs/snipers/etc?...Can anyone?
 
 "Can anyone?" I see the best that can apparently be managed in response to that's a minus vote, which I'll take as a No...? 😉
 
EastUS1 said:
Who cares if you or I were fans? They were/are American citizens with certain Rights. What degree of force would you have deemed appropriate to "put them in jail" if they "violated the law"? Don't dare even begin to suggest any reasonable response might depend on the severity of any actual crime...since you've been advocating potentially deadly force for just keeping cattle from grazing in the frikkin' desert! 😉
You asked my opinion. If you did not want it and don't like my response then you should not have asked.

If there is a warrant for their arrest you go get them. Meet force with force. Not a hard concept to grasp.
 
southwind said:
And "AGAIN" I will say, if he's been asked nicely, over the years, why not arrest "HIM" and keep him in jail until he complies vs. sending "ARMED" Bureau of Land Management peeps ( one of the most ridiculous things our government allows) out to slaughter his cattle?
You really need to read up on Bundy and his beliefs. Your questions will be answered if you do.
 
Are you prepared to send taxpayer funded refund checks to all the other ranchers who have paid the fees? Make them whole for all the years they followed the law since Reagan extended the program through...gasp...executive order...in 1986?

All ranchers who follow the law are harmed by Bundy being allowed to freeload with zero consequences.

Since you are willing to let this guy slide, I assume the answer is yes.

"DOIs Bureau of Land Management (BLM)--which was created in 1946--administers 245 million acres of public land nationwide. This includes grazing rights on 155 million acres. The Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978 created the current system of charging rental fees for ranchers to use these acres to feed their private livestock, and was extended by President Ronald Reagan in a 1986 executive order.

In 1993, Bundy stopped paying grazing fees to the federal government, claiming he fired BLM. He admits that he would owe at minimum $300,000 for these fees, if he believed that he was legally obligated to pay at all. BLM spokesperson Kirsten Cannon says the amount is $1.1 million.

The Obama administration says it must act. For more than two decades, cattle have been grazed [sic] illegally on public lands in northeast Clark County, reads a BLM statement. It goes on to note that BLM has tried during those years to resolve this matter through the courts, but Bundy will not comply with court orders.

The acres in this dispute are owned by the federal government. Nonetheless, Bundy claims that (1) the Constitution does not permit the federal government to own land, (2) the United States is therefore trespassing by sending agents onto that land, (3) he has a public easement on the land entitling him to access, and (4) he pays state and local fees regarding the land, but is not legally required to pay anything to the federal government.

This matter has gone to federal court, which rejected all of Bundys arguments. Bundy insists that what he is doing is a statement for freedom and liberty and the Constitution.
While he is doubtless sincere in his beliefs, he is wrong. The same Constitution that Bundy claims to be fighting for is the one that authorizes federal statutes regarding these matters, and in Article III creates federal courts to decide such disputes.

The U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada heard his case, and Judge Lloyd George--who is also Mormon--ruled against Bundy. In 2013, the court authorized federal agents to seize any of Bundys cattle that he refused to remove from these federal lands. In recent days BLM has seized at least 134 animals, and it is unclear whether they are being held, or have been destroyed (which might enable Bundy to bring an additional legal challenge).

Although it is easy to feel sympathy for the Bundy familys plight, they are wrong as a matter of law. Multiple provisions of the Constitution empower the federal government to own land, such as the provisions in Article I, Section 8, pertaining to building military bases, federal highways, and postal roads, and the land area for a federal capital (Washington, D.C.). Also the Fifth Amendment Taking Clause says the federal government cannot seize private property unless it does so for a public purpose and pays the previous owner fair market value, necessarily creating the result that the federal government henceforth owns that property.

People go to jail all the time for rejecting the federal governments lawful authority. For example, people are imprisoned for refusing to pay federal income taxes, offering outlandish legal theories, long rejected by the courts, that federal income taxes are unconstitutional. Some such people claim that the Sixteenth Amendment of the Constitution--which authorizes the income tax--was never actually ratified in 1913, and therefore that such laws are invalid.
Bundy expresses a similar mindset on federal authority. I abide by all state laws. But I abide by almost zero federal laws, he explained."

Source = Breitbart.com

It would seem that now would be the perfect time for him to negotiate a settlement with the USA for the back rental fees. Donald Trump alluded to this yesterday. Imagine him being a source of reason in this.
 
EastUS1 said:
"Can anyone?" I see the best that can apparently be managed in response to that's a minus vote, which I'll take as a No...? 😉
I was not aware that personal harm had to take place for the law to be applied.

And once again, the armed response was because Bundy escalated to that point. So yes it is warranted.
 
Think on that just a bit further. Should we then suppose the BLM, who've plenty of guns, "intend" on shooting people?
You can if you want. I'll settle for not instigating range wars.
 
Ms Tree said:
Meet force with force. Not a hard concept to grasp.
 
So then: Given your long-ago description of having been just an unarmed and apparently, entirely defenseless victim of a mugging yourself...well...how is that you're now suddenly so "ferocious" where other people's lives would be at stake?
 
Dog Wonder said:
 I'll settle for not instigating range wars.
 
As would anyone that's at all actually sane, or even halfway so. Perhaps that wisdom should be passed along to all who would so eagerly wish to see force used just over some cattle grazing in the desert...? 😉
 
You'll have to explain that segue. I've got no clue what you are attempting to say.
 
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