Can The Financial Wizards Explain?

[eolesen]

And finally, it would be nice if we could get your ill trained crews and poor equipment out of the sky.

[post="267055"][/post]​

I'm sure that 270M U.S. taxpayers are more concerned about having to pay for the fact that United failed to put money aside to fund your pension. Thank God we didn't also have to bail you out with an ATSB loan.

 

[Busdrvr]

I'm sure that 270M U.S. taxpayers are more concerned about having to pay for the fact that United failed to put money aside to fund your pension. Thank God we didn't also have to bail you out with an ATSB loan.

[post="267143"][/post]​

You'll be bankrupt soon, mark my word. but consider all the benefit AMR gained when they had TWA forgo it's obligations.

It's pretty comical though. UAL is smaller than AMR,a nd yet has a significantly higher total pension obligation. IOW, your worthless employees never faught for the type pensions that the UAL guys did. As usual, you waited for the various UAL groups to fight the battel, and like a little rat, cam along later to try to steal a much smaller piece for yourself. Now you'll go over to the UAL board and beg us to continue to fight the fights you haven't the balls to fight yourself.

 

[Hopeful]

You'll be bankrupt soon, mark my word. but consider all the benefit AMR gained when they had TWA forgo it's obligations.

It's pretty comical though. UAL is smaller than AMR,a nd yet has a significantly higher total pension obligation. IOW, your worthless employees never faught for the type pensions that the UAL guys did. As usual, you waited for the various UAL groups to fight the battel, and like a little rat, cam along later to try to steal a much smaller piece for yourself. Now you'll go over to the UAL board and beg us to continue to fight the fights you haven't the balls to fight yourself.

[post="267304"][/post]​

You're wrong about AA and bankruptcy! As long as the TWU is alive and well, they will have us work for minimum wage before they let AA file Chapter 11.

 

[eolesen]

It's pretty comical though. UAL is smaller than AMR,a nd yet has a significantly higher total pension obligation.

[post="267304"][/post]​

Doesn't being on furlough allow you a little more time getting your facts straight?

1) Pension obligations today aren't a reflection of how big the company is today. UAL is smaller today. That wasn't the fact in 1999.

2) All hires in non-union areas for the past five years have been in a company match 401K. That's another 1500-2000 employees who aren't reflected in the overall pension burden for AMR.

3) All TWA employee pension obligations earned prior to 2001 are under PBGC control. That's around 4500 of our existing employees (not including those on furlough). That reduces overall pension burden for AMR as well.

4) Lump sums. Lump sums reduce future obligations, but decimate existing funding. How many pilots bailed out on UAL taking million dollar lump sums, knowing about the underfunding and that there was a chance they'd take a PBGC imposed haircut later?

5) Unrealistic contracts. At least AMR didn't agree to contracts which we couldn't support financially pre 9/11. UAL couldn't support their 2000 pilot contract the day they signed it. Neither could DAL.

To paraphrase your esteemed MEC President Emeritus Dubinsky, you managed to choke your golden goose to death.

Dick got his golden egg.

You're getting goose ####. And we're having to pay for it.

 

[aafsc]

You'll be bankrupt soon, mark my word. but consider all the benefit AMR gained when they had TWA forgo it's obligations.

It's pretty comical though. UAL is smaller than AMR,a nd yet has a significantly higher total pension obligation. IOW, your worthless employees never faught for the type pensions that the UAL guys did. As usual, you waited for the various UAL groups to fight the battel, and like a little rat, cam along later to try to steal a much smaller piece for yourself. Now you'll go over to the UAL board and beg us to continue to fight the fights you haven't the balls to fight yourself.

[post="267304"][/post]​

1. As I have explained to the TWAers many times and will now explain to you, AA purchased TWA's assets in a Chapter 11/Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation. AA took only the assets it wanted and incurred only certain liabilities it saw fit to acquire. They did NOT purchase the company as a whole and therefore was not responsible to pay all of TWA's debts.

2. Except for the AA pilots, all the other work groups at AA in 2001 had INDUSTRY LEADING contracts. Unfortunately, we lost those gains and then some in the concessions. As I have stated before, the reason UA is in bankrutpcy now is because of the large cash bleed caused by the large pilot raises, the Summer of 2000 crisis ($750 million out the door there), management screwups (USAir, Avolar, etc.), 9/11, high oil prices, and dirt cheap tickets. All these things combined put you in the position you are in today. For you to say we wait for the UA people to fight the battle is absurd. The AA pilots turned down the UA, and DL pilot payrates because they wanted more in other areas of their contract. The AA mechanics got their pay raise because of what the NW AMTs got (without the large amounts of outsourcing). The rampers and AA F/As got our industry leading contracts on our own. So your statements about the AA people can not be considered valid. And what you do at UA is your business. If you strike fine. If you decide to work for nothing, fine. You deal with your situation at UA and we will deal with ours at AA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Doesn't being on furlough allow you a little more time getting your facts straight?

1) Pension obligations today aren't a reflection of how big the company is today. UAL is smaller today. That wasn't the fact in 1999.

2) All hires in non-union areas for the past five years have been in a company match 401K. That's another 1500-2000 employees who aren't reflected in the overall pension burden for AMR.

3) All TWA employee pension obligations earned prior to 2001 are under PBGC control. That's around 4500 of our existing employees (not including those on furlough). That reduces overall pension burden for AMR as well.

4) Lump sums. Lump sums reduce future obligations, but decimate existing funding. How many pilots bailed out on UAL taking million dollar lump sums, knowing about the underfunding and that there was a chance they'd take a PBGC imposed haircut later?

5) Unrealistic contracts. At least AMR didn't agree to contracts which we couldn't support financially pre 9/11. UAL couldn't support their 2000 pilot contract the day they signed it. Neither could DAL.

To paraphrase your esteemed MEC President Emeritus Dubinsky, you managed to choke your golden goose to death.

Dick got his golden egg.

You're getting goose ####. And we're having to pay for it.

[post="267343"][/post]​

Well even if we were the exact same size all along AA would have a smaller obligation.

Thats because we lose the first year towards our pension, had the longest progression to top pay, have more low paid classifications such as SRPs, Junior Fleet service clerks, etc, and usually made less than UAL employees.

 

[scab scraper]

blah,blah,blah,blah.........it goes on/on/on you amfa(PUKE) NEVER get do you?
no matter who or what kind of info is put out there you ALWAYS aruge or make PURE DUMBA** remarks!!!!!!!!!! dAAve/boobyboy/amfa(PUKE)man(?) & the rest of you SCABS!!!!!!!
the USATODAY had a every interesting piece last week & gave a lot of good info about the airlines & how they work it!!!! know what i mean? you amfa(PUKE's) think that you are the pnly ones who have this kind of info & when someone gives you good info you gotta keep on & wanna know where "is it documented" "where did you get it from?" when it don't mean a rats butt....but some how dAAve& boobyboy seem to think that if i spend all this time posting lots of MEANINGLESS words everyone will think i know what i am talking & think i am a infomed guy.
everyone knows the game $$$$$ is on paper. $$$$ is where the slots are.$$$ is where the routes are. go to usatoday 5/4 & read it & put it together with what the finance guy told you .........THE ONE WHO KNOWS $$$$$ & shut up about it.
i still don't understand that if you amfa(PUKEs) are so smart WHY are working on airplanes????????? DUH!!!!
OBTW dAAve we all know you are still the SCABMASTER no matter what you tell us @ the base & you did tell me to the face "i am through with them" and we were talking amfa(PUKE) & the only thing you are using your camera for is to take pix of the meetings @ loco12 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
O another thing O SCABMASTER you made the "scab list" ta da surprise🙂
did you read the tulsa world sunday? want ads? seems some AIRLINE in Minnesota
is looking a&ps hummm i see 'del didn't show for "THE INFORMATION MEETING"
see ya all the next time............blah/blah/blah/blah/blah/blah/blah get this......
AFL/CIO/ATD/TWU=UNION=SCABFREE

y'all do spell check ok hackoff?? OBTW hackman do you REALLY have a BOYFRIEND????? LOL/LOL..hackman has a BOYFRIEND HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Bob Owens]

blah,blah,blah,blah.........it goes on/on/on you amfa(PUKE) NEVER get do you?
no matter who or what kind of info is put out there you ALWAYS aruge or make PURE DUMBA** remarks!!!!!!!!!! dAAve/boobyboy/amfa(PUKE)man(?) & the rest of you SCABS!!!!!!!
the USATODAY had a every interesting piece last week & gave a lot of good info about the airlines & how they work it!!!! know what i mean? you amfa(PUKE's) think that you are the pnly ones who have this kind of info & when someone gives you good info you gotta keep on & wanna know where "is it documented" "where did you get it from?" when it don't mean a rats butt....but some how dAAve& boobyboy seem to think that if i spend all this time posting lots of MEANINGLESS words everyone will think i know what i am talking & think i am a infomed guy.
everyone knows the game $$$$$ is on paper. $$$$ is where the slots are.$$$ is where the routes are. go to usatoday 5/4 & read it & put it together with what the finance guy told you .........THE ONE WHO KNOWS $$$$$ & shut up about it.
i still don't understand that if you amfa(PUKEs) are so smart WHY are working on airplanes????????? DUH!!!!
OBTW dAAve we all know you are still the SCABMASTER no matter what you tell us @ the base & you did tell me to the face "i am through with them" and we were talking amfa(PUKE) & the only thing you are using your camera for is to take pix of the meetings @ loco12 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
O another thing O SCABMASTER you made the "scab list" ta da surprise🙂
did you read the tulsa world sunday? want ads? seems some AIRLINE in Minnesota
is looking a&ps hummm i see 'del didn't show for "THE INFORMATION MEETING"
see ya all the next time............blah/blah/blah/blah/blah/blah/blah get this......
AFL/CIO/ATD/TWU=UNION=SCABFREE

y'all do spell check ok hackoff?? OBTW hackman do you REALLY have a BOYFRIEND????? LOL/LOL..hackman has a BOYFRIEND HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[post="268509"][/post]​

Another fine example of TWU composition. Please note that this is typical of the thought process and communication skills we get from the TWU. For another fine example just look at the contract.

 

[Thomas Paine]

nevermind