I was wondering about IFR helicopter flying in Canada, I've been flying mostly aerial work for a few years and am thinking of a change. Could use some advice on how to break in to this type of R/W flying and also some good places to train. The only place I know of is "Pro IFR" Boundry Bay, there must be others. Any comments from the people in the know would be greatly appreciated. My first visit to this fourm spent hrs reading here I'll be a regular for sure.
Canada Ifr
- Thread starter LL slave
- Start date
From what I hear Pro IFR is a really great place to get your IFR rating. I guess they do some of the time in a Cessna so the cost gets cut down some. For what it's worth the school I'm attending does IFR ratings too. I'll PM you the goods on it. Good luck and welcome aboard! 
L L Slave -------what part of Canada would you like to train if you could find a good school and/or what part do you live?
- Thread Starter
- #6
I mostly live at work, AB. BC. but other times in Ont. would be interested in any schools in Canada maybe the east coast there's lots of IFR stuff out there surely there must be a training outfit . If any of you guys are into this stuff some stories about how you got your start and what you think the best route to take would be great, I dont know anyone who does R/W IFR.
Cheers
Cheers
IFR in Canada- you are either talking Helijet, Cougar, CHC Global or Canadian. Call them and ask whom they may recommend.
They have to train and PPC folks on 212 or 76 from basic IFR so would be able to give some good direction.
cheers
Sharkbait
PM with your phone number if you want further - I will call if in I am in Canada. Least I can do to help low timers- lot of guys helped me.
They have to train and PPC folks on 212 or 76 from basic IFR so would be able to give some good direction.
cheers
Sharkbait
PM with your phone number if you want further - I will call if in I am in Canada. Least I can do to help low timers- lot of guys helped me.
Pick up a primer, like Culhane's Instrument Rating Groundschool. Know the IFR section of the A.I.P.. Learn all you can prior to forking over the cash, it'll give you a good headstart on regs and procedures and you can concentrate on the flying skills. Of course until you're taking the course some of it may not come together, but it'll help you get the most from your hard-earned money.
Pick up a Computer Procedures Trainer, either a pro one or Microsoft's Flight Sim, and spend a ton of time doing approaches and what-not on the King-Air (closest I think to the panels you'll actually be flying) with the flaps and gear down to keep your speed helo-like.
Concentrate on precision while flying VFR. Pick a rate of climb and stick to it like glue, same goes for rates of turn, holding altitudes, headings. Try to maintain an airspeed and climb and decend with your collective instead of cyclic. IFR guys typically fly with the same precision whether they are IFR or VFR, and shaking a decade of bush flying technique (at least mine) was difficult. Better to start the habit now.
I found all the regs and things to know a little daunting at first, but once you start to apply things on a regular basis it gets to be second nature, and you'll probally find (over time) the IFR much easier and more relaxing than VFR.
Once you get the ticket, I doubt CHC Global (International's new moniker) will pick you up until you've got some actual under your belt. EMS in Ontario is good for giving guys a start but be careful which base you get as some don't fly that much and it'll take you forever to get any real time, and Ontario isn't really known for it's IFR weather. The Halifax EMS op gets tons of actual and is busy. You'd be hard pressed to do better than Helijet as you get tons of actual in a heavy traffic enviroment flying with very experienced Captains, and you'll log alot of twin time rather quickly.
Best of luck to you
Pick up a Computer Procedures Trainer, either a pro one or Microsoft's Flight Sim, and spend a ton of time doing approaches and what-not on the King-Air (closest I think to the panels you'll actually be flying) with the flaps and gear down to keep your speed helo-like.
Concentrate on precision while flying VFR. Pick a rate of climb and stick to it like glue, same goes for rates of turn, holding altitudes, headings. Try to maintain an airspeed and climb and decend with your collective instead of cyclic. IFR guys typically fly with the same precision whether they are IFR or VFR, and shaking a decade of bush flying technique (at least mine) was difficult. Better to start the habit now.
I found all the regs and things to know a little daunting at first, but once you start to apply things on a regular basis it gets to be second nature, and you'll probally find (over time) the IFR much easier and more relaxing than VFR.
Once you get the ticket, I doubt CHC Global (International's new moniker) will pick you up until you've got some actual under your belt. EMS in Ontario is good for giving guys a start but be careful which base you get as some don't fly that much and it'll take you forever to get any real time, and Ontario isn't really known for it's IFR weather. The Halifax EMS op gets tons of actual and is busy. You'd be hard pressed to do better than Helijet as you get tons of actual in a heavy traffic enviroment flying with very experienced Captains, and you'll log alot of twin time rather quickly.
Best of luck to you
I believe Culhane was the only helicopter orientated IFR book available when I did mine in the eighties, I'm sure there's better out there now.
I don't recall the exact numbers or if things have changed. but of the 40 hours IFR required for the ride/ticket, I believe you can do half on a certified sim, and you only need to do 5 in your group (helo). I did 20 hours on a King Air sim in Montreal, 15 hours under the hood in a Cessna 152, and I didn't even have a fixed wing licence, and only 5 on a helo prior to my ride (typically another hour or so), so you can save alot of cash as opposed to doing the whole deal in an eggbeater.
I don't recall the exact numbers or if things have changed. but of the 40 hours IFR required for the ride/ticket, I believe you can do half on a certified sim, and you only need to do 5 in your group (helo). I did 20 hours on a King Air sim in Montreal, 15 hours under the hood in a Cessna 152, and I didn't even have a fixed wing licence, and only 5 on a helo prior to my ride (typically another hour or so), so you can save alot of cash as opposed to doing the whole deal in an eggbeater.
- Thread Starter
- #11
Thanks for all the good stuff, this fourm or I should say the people in It are proving to be a great source of info and advice. thanks everybody! any word on a place to train in the east ?
Culhane's stuff is not completely useless, and is OK for a quick refresher, but you have to know your stuff first to pick up the mistakes. I wouldn't recommend it as the sole means of study. You would get more from the AIP.
Out East? The only one I have experience of is Canadian at Buttonville. ProIFR are excellent for the groundwork, but the 206 I was trying to use had no ADF in it and they were using a GPS as a substitute. If you go to Canadian you will likely get Richard Pearce as the examiner, who will not only give you a thorough checkout but a learning experience as well (he made me plan a 5 hour trip in a 206!).
Two tips I can offer for any IFR course - ensure that you are *very* familiar with the machine you are using so you don't look like a dork when you are looking for the switches. Also, check the compass deviation card before you do the NDB approach (you can be miles off with only a couple of degrees difference). Lastly, 'cos I promised not to give Richard's secrets away, remember that a hydraulic failure means you go slower
Phil
Out East? The only one I have experience of is Canadian at Buttonville. ProIFR are excellent for the groundwork, but the 206 I was trying to use had no ADF in it and they were using a GPS as a substitute. If you go to Canadian you will likely get Richard Pearce as the examiner, who will not only give you a thorough checkout but a learning experience as well (he made me plan a 5 hour trip in a 206!).
Two tips I can offer for any IFR course - ensure that you are *very* familiar with the machine you are using so you don't look like a dork when you are looking for the switches. Also, check the compass deviation card before you do the NDB approach (you can be miles off with only a couple of degrees difference). Lastly, 'cos I promised not to give Richard's secrets away, remember that a hydraulic failure means you go slower
Phil
LLSlave -------it depends on how far east you are willing to go. There are many good ones, but foremost has to be the Moncton Flying Club. They were the first to be allowed to train in IMC and have been training for over 60 yrs. There are tons of pilots that have received their training for IFR at this place over the decades. I am speaking now only of the organization, their standard of equipment and course. They have no monopoly on the best instructors and neither do any of the others. You may also have some that are very good by your back-door and don't know it , so investigate carefully.
Buy MS FlightSimulator and a joystick, pedals and collective. Practice every approach for the airport at which you are training and any other airports in the vicinity. Practice until you can do these approaches in your sleep.
When you practice IFR in the aircraft, make sure that no outside cues whatsoever are available. Even the slightest exterior glimpse will ruin the illusion. Usually this means covering the windows and chin bubble with brown paper.
Try to separate learning to control the aircraft on instruments and learning the instrument procedures. It is over whelming to do both at once.
Make numerous visits to the control tower and other air traffic control facilities. Find out what really goes on in there.
Try to practice IFR at night. It is more difficult to get outside clues.
When practicing IFR, try this. Let the instructor fly while you sit with your eyes closed for several minutes. Make sure the cockpit is blacked out and you cannot see outside. Then open your eyes and take control. Immediately make an approach.
Get a VHF handheld radio and listen in on departure, enroute and approach control whenever you can.
Do not delude yourself that if and when you get the rating that you can successfully fly on instruments. Many experienced IFR pilots have come to grief after encountering inadvertant IFR. On the other hand, you must do everything you can to convince yourself that you can at least keep the thing upright and going in one direction at one altitude if you have to. You must have at least this much confidence in your abilities.
When you practice IFR in the aircraft, make sure that no outside cues whatsoever are available. Even the slightest exterior glimpse will ruin the illusion. Usually this means covering the windows and chin bubble with brown paper.
Try to separate learning to control the aircraft on instruments and learning the instrument procedures. It is over whelming to do both at once.
Make numerous visits to the control tower and other air traffic control facilities. Find out what really goes on in there.
Try to practice IFR at night. It is more difficult to get outside clues.
When practicing IFR, try this. Let the instructor fly while you sit with your eyes closed for several minutes. Make sure the cockpit is blacked out and you cannot see outside. Then open your eyes and take control. Immediately make an approach.
Get a VHF handheld radio and listen in on departure, enroute and approach control whenever you can.
Do not delude yourself that if and when you get the rating that you can successfully fly on instruments. Many experienced IFR pilots have come to grief after encountering inadvertant IFR. On the other hand, you must do everything you can to convince yourself that you can at least keep the thing upright and going in one direction at one altitude if you have to. You must have at least this much confidence in your abilities.
You could also talk to Kent Levitt at TRK Helicopters in Langley - 604 999 9726
They have 2 R22s and a 44, IFR equipped and a flyit simulator, so that should cut the costs down!
Phil
They have 2 R22s and a 44, IFR equipped and a flyit simulator, so that should cut the costs down!
Phil
