Carty Should be held accountable!

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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Ya gotta love it when Carty says that the American''s problems were not just the result of 9/11. He has stated that as early as early-2001, the airline industry was headed for trouble as the economy started to go soft. So he was aware that AA was going to have revenue troubles about two years ago. So why did he purchase TWA? He should be held accountable by the board of directors as to why he embarked on one of the all time great blunders in the industry. He knew AA was heading for a downturn but went ahead and purchased a bankrupt company, assumed their debt, satisfied their pension plan only to send AA into a tailspin. And now the employees have to sacrifice to save the company. Good deal, wouldn''t you say?
 

jimboli

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Oct 20, 2002
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Carty could not purchase TWA without the permission of the board. Therefore, if you want to hold anyone accountable, it would be him and the board.

Of course, the board is elected by the shareholders. Since the shareholders elected the board, the shareholders should be held accountable.

Since employees of AA are shareholders (through the pension plan and other means), they were part of the group that elected the board -- therefore, everone is to blame.

My point is, as an AA passenger, I dont care who is to blame. I feel bad for you (the employees), the company (yes, even Don) and the industry. All the complaining will not change things. You do the best you can, keep your head high and at some point in the future, things will turn around.

--Jim
 

WingNaPrayer

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Aug 20, 2002
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Do you really think the stockholders elect the board of directors?

Those votes are closely held and controlled by AMR, let there be no mistake.

Board members are elected by majority vote. Currently, Lord Abbett & CO,(with 26.5 million votes) and Primecap Management,(with 14.7 million votes) two inventment corporations with extremely tight ties to AMR's "upper crust" control enough stock to out-vote ALL of the other stockholders put together.

Add Allianz, Barclays and FMR Corporation and it's a shoe-in that whomever AMR puts in their retention vote recommendations will be elected, or re-elected as the case may be, to the BOD seat.

The only vote of the general stock holders that corporate, or the board, will listen to is when stockholders start dumping their holdings. Most general stockholders don't even vote, they either send in their proxy card, letting the company vote their shares, or then don't send them at all, which is votes not counted or "abstained" votes.
 

FrugalFlyer

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 6:20:19 PM jimboli wrote:
My point is, as an AA passenger, I dont care who is to blame. I feel bad for you (the employees), the company (yes, even Don) and the industry. All the complaining will not change things. You do the best you can, keep your head high and at some point in the future, things will turn around.

--Jim
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[/blockquote]

Jim,
Well said, I agree with you.
 

Boomer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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jimboli,

with all due respect, your logic would have the victim accorded the same guilt as the perpetrator....utter rubbish.
 

flygal4500

Member
Jan 6, 2003
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[< On 2/6/2003 9:19:46 AM Hopeful wrote:

Ya gotta love it when Carty says that the American's problems were not just the result of 9/11. He has stated that as early as early-2001, the airline industry was headed for trouble as the economy started to go soft. So he was aware that AA was going to have revenue troubles about two years ago. So why did he purchase TWA? ]>

I imagine that if he could have predicted 9/11 and the carnage after that, he might not have.

>>He should be held accountable by the board of directors
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 12:22:45 AM LGA Fleet Service wrote:

Then we get to experience the warm and fuzzy feeling of having a revolving door in the CEO position, it's done wonders for UAL hasn't it?


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[/blockquote]

When are you going to offer your solutions instead of complaints?
 
OP
Hopeful

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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It was not a good business decision pre 9/11 and it had proved almost fatal to AA's existence as all the employees are asked to make major sacrifices. We realize changes have to be made, but the result of the TWA purchase has pushed AA deeper into the hole facing a far greater cash crunch had it not made the purchase.
 
[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 5:47:34 AM RV4 wrote:

When are you going to offer your solutions instead of complaints?
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[/blockquote]

And you consider that suggesting to get rid of Carty is a real solution? All it does is remove a figurehead. It doesn't fix the cost problem, the debt problem, or the revenue problem.
 

Winglet

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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Then I guess it doesn't matter who's at the helm of AA. If that's the case eoleson I think we can get a street bum to head AA, and probably a lot cheaper.

What this company needs is leadership and innovation, not the same "old think." Wasn't Carty the same guy who took a Canadian airline into BK?

The reason the airline industry is so screwed up is a combination of witless corporate leadership, inane pricing policies, totally incompetent government adminstration of the transportation system, and a Islamic fanatic religious war against us.
 
[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 10:16:52 AM Winglet wrote:

Wasn't Carty the same guy who took a Canadian airline into BK?

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[/blockquote]

No, that was his brother, Doug Carty. They're really two different people, just like Al Casey (AA) and John Casey (Braniff).

I don't disagree with your list of reasons why the industry is in the toilet, but you've pointed fingers at everyone else but labor. Hopefully, that was just an oversight.
 

Buck

Veteran
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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 12:10:18 PM eolesen wrote:

I don't disagree with your list of reasons why the industry is in the toilet, but you've pointed fingers at everyone else but labor. Hopefully, that was just an oversight.
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[/blockquote]
And airline management continues to blame labor for there inability to manage their product.
 

Winglet

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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In management school and as a military officer, I was always taught that bad companies and bad units almost ALWAYS suffered from bad leadership. Bad labor relations are almost ALWAYS a sign of bad management also. My years of experience being in, and leading small and large units confirm that truism in spades.

Goodwin of UAL could have had a cheaper contract at the beginning of summer 2000, but chose instead to piss-off his customers in Denver and slow-roll his pilots, then he settles for a more expensive contract at the end of the summer.

For the past 18 months or so, Carty has enjoyed a 25-30% discount on his pilot costs over DAL and UAL. But that's not enough. Carty wants to essentially cut compensation in HALF over that. I've seen a lot of buffoonery at AA and almost ALL of it caused by bad inept leadership and supervision. Combine that with a government that is hostile to workers, that just ices the CEO's cakes.

As a former republican (I recently just deregistered from the party), I hope Mr. Bush will do something to stop the downhill spiral of the industry. The public may enjoy their below cost tickets right now, but in a year or two, they're not going to like what the industry turns into. If they think ticket prices are going to stay low just because airline workers are paid bus-driver wages, then they're in for a real shock.

When the economy comes back, there's going to be greatly decreased capacity, and prices are going through the roof, regardless if you pay your workers peanuts. Regardless if government does or does not emasculate the unions with a repeal of the RLA, you're going to see unbelievable union labor hostility in the industry.
 

AAmech

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
766
1
[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 6:21:46 AM Hopeful wrote:

It was not a good business decision pre 9/11 and it had proved almost fatal to AA's existence as all the employees are asked to make major sacrifices. We realize changes have to be made, but the result of the TWA purchase has pushed AA deeper into the hole facing a far greater cash crunch had it not made the purchase.
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[/blockquote]
The TWA deal was by and large considered a fabulous, blockbuster, homerun deal! It was dirt cheap(the price of a few 777's) with only debt being jets, gates and terminals. Even the Godlike Crandall was impressed with this coup!! Maybe you forget how CO and others were trying to intervene in court just to buy pieces of TWA for around the same price as Carty paid for the entire deal. Nobody likes the expense of the integration now, but to claim it was a bad deal then is ridiculous revisionist history!
 

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