Cia Agrees With Kerry.

[NWA/AMT]

More interesting evidence about the Republican version of 'truth':

Page Three

"Mr. Elliott, who recommended Mr. Kerry for the Silver Star, had signed one affidavit saying Mr. Kerry "was not forthright" in the statements that had led to the award. Two weeks ago, The Boston Globe quoted him as saying that he felt he should not have signed the affidavit. He then signed a second affidavit that reaffirmed his first, which the Swift Boat Veterans gave to reporters. Mr. Elliott has refused to speak publicly since then."

"Mr. Schachte did not return a telephone call, and a spokesman for the group said he would not comment."

""If that's what we have to say," Mr. Chenoweth added, "that's how it was.""

"A damage report to Mr. Thurlow's boat shows that it received three bullet holes, suggesting enemy fire, and later intelligence reports indicate that one Vietcong was killed in action and five others wounded, reaffirming the presence of an enemy. Mr. Thurlow said the boat was hit the day before. He also received a Bronze Star for the day, a fact left out of "Unfit for Command.""

Sorry, Fred. You'll have to do a lot better than these guys.

 

[FredF]

Do better than what? I am not trying to do better than anything. A quote was posted here about kerry saying "Bring it on" but he is trying to quash a book from being published and distrubuted.

He can clear all this up by releasing all his navy records which he refuses to do and the willing press seems to ignore.

I have not said anything against his service in the Navy. I have commented about what he has said publically after it about things that never happened.

Specifically: The memory that was seared into his brain about spending christmas in cambodia ordered there by President Nixon. EXCEPT: It never happened. He was not in cambodia over christmas and Nixon was not even presidend Christmas of '68. How could something that never happened be "seared"(his words not mine) into is memory?

Give him his medals it really doesn't matter. What matters it that he asked to be let out of his service early(fine, I actually have no problem with that one either) to run for political office. He then chose to break the faith with those he served with to condem them and their alleged actions before congress and anybody else with a mic. Those statements were then used not only to lend aid and comfort to our enemies but also used to taunt and torture those that he server with.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Treason

"treason was specifically defined in the United States Constitution. Article Three defines treason as only levying war against the United States or giving aid and comfort to its enemies,"

What about those medals he threw over the fence or rather was supposed to have. I fully support his right to do what he like with them weather it be in protest or otherwise, but he made a point of taking the medals he was awarded(these same medals he is touting so proudly mind you) over the fence or wall or whatever it was. But wait, turns out they were not his medals.

Am I saying he should be prosecuted? No. What I am saying and have been saying for quite a while is that he is a career political who has had very little impact on government, has gone whatever way the wind blows and does not stand for anything of substance other than he is destined to become President.

I oppose him for what he stands for when he actually takes a stand a keeps it. I do not trust or believe him. He has shown, through his past 20 years in the senate that he supports what is convinenet yet nowhere in those 20 years in the senate has he tried to acomplish anything of what he purports to stand for today.

Another example: While people can, do and should sometimes change their stance based on new experiences, he was quoted as saying that while people can and do change their stance on issues, some things such as life and death do not change. Yet at times in his career he has been both for and against the death penalty and abortion. Now this is not meant as a debat on those issues, but for someone to say that people do not change life and death core beliefs and yet he has changed his, what would you call that?

 

[sentrido]

He can clear all this up by releasing all his navy records which he refuses to do and the willing press seems to ignore.

[post="170945"][/post]​

You mean these records?

 

[KCFlyer]

Another example: While people can, do and should sometimes change their stance based on new experiences, he was quoted as saying that while people can and do change their stance on issues, some things such as life and death do not change. Yet at times in his career he has been both for and against the death penalty and abortion. Now this is not meant as a debat on those issues, but for someone to say that people do not change life and death core beliefs and yet he has changed his, what would you call that?

[post="170945"][/post]​

Well...I'll have to debate those issues. See, Fred, I don't believe in abortion. But about 12 years ago, my wife and I had a doctor tell us that the baby my wife was carrying did not have a brain. It's called anecephaly and the brain stem fails to form. The only thing keeping that baby alive was my wifes body. Once born, it would survive a few minutes at most...then die. Now, it ain't easy when someone tells you something like that and you have to carry the baby 5 or 6 more months...knowing that when it's born...it's dead. And nobody can tell you the anguish that both parents feel at getting that kind of news. Now...do you tell your wife that it's all sacred and she must carry the baby to term? Is it right to pray to God every night that the baby die in the womb? Is it any less right to abort the fetus? So you know what? I can kind of see the right to have an abortion. Still don't agree with them as a form of birth control, but by no means do I condone banning them completely either. I guess that makes me a "flip flop".

I also used to believe in the death penalty, but over time, I have changed my opinion on that as well. Doesn't mean I'd condone setting A Ted Bundy or a Carla Faye Tucker back out on the streets, it only means that I find it abhorant to mock a person on death row who is begging not to be let out of jail, but to live in confinement. And then call myself a "pro life" candidate.

 

[sentrido]

Specifically: The memory that was seared into his brain about spending christmas in cambodia ordered there by President Nixon. EXCEPT: It never happened. He was not in cambodia over christmas and Nixon was not even presidend Christmas of '68. How could something that never happened be "seared"(his words not mine) into is memory?

[post="170945"][/post]​

1)You don't know that it never happened.
2) Nixon was president elect.

 

[FredF]

No KC, that actually make you human and I offer my symathies for having to endure that type of a situation.

Undergoing something like that is one thing, but that is not the case with your preferred elected individual

In 1996, Kerry criticized Massachusetts Gov. William Weld for supporting the death penalty by saying, "You can change your mind on things, but not on life-and-death issues." But by December 2002, Kerry was saying to NBC that he "always had supported sentencing terrorists to death."



Even as new scientific evidence proving human fetuses to be viable human beings has emerged over the years since the Roe vs. Wade decision, Kerry has moved further to the left on abortion.

He now supports abortion in all forms, at any time, including partial-birth abortion. He even opposes measures to require pregnant minors to give parental notification or consent before getting an abortion, as they would to have their ears pierced.


Kerry once was more opposed to the practice. "I would say also that it's a tragic day in the lives of everybody when abortion is looked on as an alternative to having a child. I think that's wrong. It should be the very last thing if it has to be anything, and I say that not just because I'm opposed to abortion but because I think that's common sense,â€￾ Kerry told the Lowell Sun in 1972.


Kerry on Taxes


Has voted since 1993 for a stunning $1.7 trillion in tax increases on tobacco, gasoline, income and other items.

Voted in 1995 for a resolution that declared a middle-class tax cut unwise.

Voted against marriage-penalty tax relief in 1998, and then told MSNBC in 2003 that he had fought long and hard to get rid of the tax.

 

[FredF]

1)You don't know that it never happened.
2) Nixon was president elect.

[post="170953"][/post]​

Well actuall yes we do. First, he claimed to have been ordered there by Nixon. When was the last time a president Elect gave orders to the military?

Second, his own website and now campaign is claiming that it was not Christmas but possably later in January.

So, yes we do know that the memory that he has "Seared" into his mind is bogus, false, as in it never happened.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Do better than what? I am not trying to do better than anything.

[post="170945"][/post]​

Funny you were willing to accept the Swift Boat Veterans statements as fact recently yet now wish to distance yourself from them. So the Bush campaign should be allowed to publish a book with known falsehoods? Interesting double standard, Fred.

He can clear all this up by releasing all his navy records which he refuses to do and the willing press seems to ignore.

He did that months ago, Fred. Sentrido even provided you a link to them. Maybe you were thinking of Bush, who has managed to keep his meagre military records 'lost' for years.

Now this is not meant as a debat on those issues, but for someone to say that people do not change life and death core beliefs and yet he has changed his, what would you call that?

Experience.

What I am saying and have been saying for quite a while is that he is a career political who has had very little impact on government, has gone whatever way the wind blows and does not stand for anything of substance other than he is destined to become President.

From the Kerry web site: "57 bills and resolutions John Kerry has sponsored over the years have passed the U.S. Senate. Countless others have been improved because of his work, including the Clean Air Act, the Children’s Health Insurance Program and the COPS program."

How many did George have, Fred?

Voted against marriage-penalty tax relief in 1998...

Only after the Republicans added an amendment designed to kill the bill, but I'm sure you just forgot to mention that.

Kerry's voting record on taxes show clearly that he understands that the bills we ring up must be paid now and not pushed off to future generations. George Bush's record shows that he is operating under the assumption that everyone in the future will be as rich as he is and will be able to afford paying for his mistakes.

So, yes we do know that the memory that he has "Seared" into his mind is bogus, false, as in it never happened.

I don't know if you're aware, Fred, but there aren't any signs in the jungle saying "Now Entering Cambodia". Most of our maps, being 1 to 100,000 scale didn't even have border markings on them. To this day neither the Vietnamese or Cambodian governments can agree on where the borders are exactly.

Whether Kerry was in Cambodia at Christmas or not is only an issue if you are trying to distract from the fact that George Bush and most of his administration were nowhere near there ever.

 

[sentrido]

I cant find where he claimed to have been ordered there by Nixon. I found one where he refers to Nixon claiming there were no troops in Cambodia. Which seems like a comment on the subject in general.

And I cant find the "it was not Christmas but possably later in January" on his website. Even then, WTF? That means it didnt happen. Cause something that happened 30 years ago became "Christmas" instead of "Around Christmas"

Give me a break, Your shooting blanks here.

Fred, I respect your opinions on policy, even If I dont agree with them.But dont you think debating this crap is kinda stupid?


As for your Tax comment, Kerry will raise taxes on those making over 200K. I dont make over 200K so that wont affect me. I like the social programs we have, and the military we have, and we are running a defecit, so i think the tax height is justified. I dont think this will hurt the economy cause the gang at the top have enough money to invest when the demand comes. Kerry's voting record on taxes as been explained on this board for those who care to know the truth. You can cherry pick specific votes all you want, and that is a liability of running for president after being a senetor, but the facts have shown that Kerry isnt as you make him out to be.

 

[diogenes]

A minor correction:

The name of the Secretary of Labor is Elaine Chao, not Chen.

My bad.

[post="170869"][/post]​

Actually, it could be Mrs. McConnell, as she has been married quite a while to the conservative Senator from Ky.

Remember the flap over Rodham- Clinton?

I don't need to make the point the R's are a little shaky on consistency - they do a fine job all on their own.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Actually, it could be Mrs. McConnell, as she has been married quite a while to the conservative Senator from Ky.

[post="171007"][/post]​

Prior to accepting her present position she served on the NWA Board of Directors where she was known for her anti-labor stance. In that capacity she helped lead NWA into a devastating pilots strike that should never have happened. Soon after accepting the position at the DOL she was instrumental in using the Railway Labor Act to block a mechanics strike at NWA as well as another at UAL.

NWA is a major contributor to the Republicans and to the Bush campaign in 2000.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

From one of my favorite blogs (check it out, even if you disagree with the blogger, you'll probably find the humor funny): http://whateveritisimagainstit.blogspot.com/

Has anyone noticed that the acronym for Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is pronounced Subvert?
Kerry has (finally) accused Bush of hiding behind the Subversives: "He wants them to do his dirty work." Gee, Bush staying safe at home while sending others to do his dirty work...say, you don’t think Kerry is making a subtle allusion to Bush’s military record do you?

 

[FredF]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=14750

 

[sentrido]

Is that the best you can do? An op-ed by the guys lying about John Kerry?
Isn't that Corsi Guy the one who saide McCain was a KGB spy?

 

[FredF]

Just hold it right there.

People on this board are very quick to take claims by the Kerry campaign as truth, yet when someone points out that what Kerry says in official navy documents contrasts directly what he wrote in his own diary and later published in a book, you call that Op-ed.

Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways. That article, while parts were opinion, also pointed to a number of factual discrepancies. That is not opinion.


When Kerry, on the other hand calls this swift boats group another arm of the republican party, that is take as fact. That is mere opinion. He is being harmed by them and trying any means at his disposal to get them to go away even claiming them to be illegal. Yet he has nothing to back up his claim.

People on this board are very quick to follow the notion that whatever he says is fact yet that does not apply to anybody that would seek to contradict him.

Fine, from Kerry's own record and words. Take it as fact if you take everything else he says to be true



According to the records, Kerry claimed in the casualty report that he prepared March 13, 1969, that he was wounded as a result of a mine explosion.


On page 313 of "Tour of Duty," and evidently in Kerry's secret journal written on or about March 13, 1969, quoted in that book, Kerry relates his injury from the rice stock explosion.


Oops. Which of Kerry's accounts, stories or whatever you want to call them are you going to belive this time?