Closing Arguments

[AV1]

Then we reject and see what happens. I suspect it will not be much different than those that have gone before us.

You don't get raises in 1113c proceedings. I have not read about anyone getting a raise through 1113c and/or abrogation. The new UA the US deal that raises their pay came more than six years after BK.

Did you discuss your legal arguments with Ms Levine? I am sure in all her years of practicing law she has never considered these angles that the Local 562 President has and your masterful interpretation of BK law.

Ms Levine used to be the lawyer for the IAM. Ask any union brother that used to be IAM, most specifically ex-TWA employees how she performed in court for saving their retirement, etc. in bankruptcy. Just saying............wouldn't take her advice for the piece of paper its written on. Funny how some lawyers are just like CEO's, always in position no matter how they perform. Sometimes, just sometimes you just have to stand up and do it on your own.

 

[Bob Owens]

Then we reject and see what happens. I suspect it will not be much different than those that have gone before us.

You don't get raises in 1113c proceedings. I have not read about anyone getting a raise through 1113c and/or abrogation. The new UA the US deal that raises their pay came more than six years after BK.

Did you discuss your legal arguments with Ms Levine? I am sure in all her years of practicing law she has never considered these angles that the Local 562 President has and your masterful interpretation of BK law.

Everyone who went before us is doing better than us.

Still waiting for an answer on your claim that they can impose a six year contract on us. Havent heard of that happening to anyone. Also havent heard of anybody who was at the bottom of the industry in pay getting their contract abrogated, or before AA an Airline filing with over $4 billion in cash, or one that had 550 airplanes on order, or a company saying they needed to abrogate their contracts so they can turn a 17% profit, or a Judge sending the parties to another Judge to mediate. There are a lot of things about this case that has not been seen before.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

Then we reject and see what happens. I suspect it will not be much different than those that have gone before us.

You don't get raises in 1113c proceedings. I have not read about anyone getting a raise through 1113c and/or abrogation. The new UA the US deal that raises their pay came more than six years after BK.

Did you discuss your legal arguments with Ms Levine? I am sure in all her years of practicing law she has never considered these angles that the Local 562 President has and your masterful interpretation of BK law.

your willingness to accept a six year deth sentence on top of the 9 year conract we have been working under is absolutely ridiculous. But that is the way the twu operates it accepts willingly without a fuss. That is why we are where we are today DEAD LAST. Enough of your fear mongering its time for new representation...

 

[Overspeed]

Everyone who went before us is doing better than us.

Still waiting for an answer on your claim that they can impose a six year contract on us. Havent heard of that happening to anyone. Also havent heard of anybody who was at the bottom of the industry in pay getting their contract abrogated, or before AA an Airline filing with over $4 billion in cash, or one that had 550 airplanes on order, or a company saying they needed to abrogate their contracts so they can turn a 17% profit, or a Judge sending the parties to another Judge to mediate. There are a lot of things about this case that has not been seen before.

After six to seven years of getting shafted on pay, retirement, and huge increases in outsourcing. Yes the ones that remained have finally passed us up. Big win Bob, real big win.

The "claim" is based on that no one has gotten a better contract immediately after BK. UA and US have taken six or more years to finally get "better" than us. Based on that we can expect up to that long. Can a judge impose a specific term? No. You think we should vote no, go through abrogation, and then go through section six. We can do that but when will the first meeting be? Right after abrogation? Extremely doubtful, the NMB will most likely not schedule a meeting until after AMR emerges from BK. So we are looking at May 2013 for the first section six meeting. Will we be starting fresh? We will be dealing with the "new AMR" and they will probably explain to the NMB that we need to start fresh. Here we go again, with the Local President Negotiating Team's track record we will probably not see anything for at least two to three years so now we are up to 2015. So then we can expect to get released finally late 2015 or early 2016. By that time the 40% OSS will be in place and 4,500 jobs lost later you will be asking us to go on strike.

Great plan Bob. Great plan.

 

[767 mechanic]

After six to seven years of getting shafted on pay, retirement, and huge increases in outsourcing. Yes the ones that remained have finally passed us up. Big win Bob, real big win.

The "claim" is based on that no one has gotten a better contract immediately after BK. UA and US have taken six or more years to finally get "better" than us. Based on that we can expect up to that long. Can a judge impose a specific term? No. You think we should vote no, go through abrogation, and then go through section six. We can do that but when will the first meeting be? Right after abrogation? Extremely doubtful, the NMB will most likely not schedule a meeting until after AMR emerges from BK. So we are looking at May 2013 for the first section six meeting. Will we be starting fresh? We will be dealing with the "new AMR" and they will probably explain to the NMB that we need to start fresh. Here we go again, with the Local President Negotiating Team's track record we will probably not see anything for at least two to three years so now we are up to 2015. So then we can expect to get released finally late 2015 or early 2016. By that time the 40% OSS will be in place and 4,500 jobs lost later you will be asking us to go on strike.

Great plan Bob. Great plan.

So the judge is going to release aa from bankruptcy without a consensual contract with apa,apfa and us right. His job is to have a viable company and aa won't be very viable if we have an imposed. What are you talking about 6 or 7 years? We have been 9 years in this contract since aa's last bankruptcy oh I mean twu screwing.

 

[Overspeed]

Why don't you just sit back hiding under the TWU FEAR FACTOR rock and let those that are ready to take a stand do so?
We have already proven that the TWU Lies or at lease twisting the facts to manipulate with fear.

AA Management has clearly stated that upon abrogation that AA and TWU have agreed that ALL contractual issues other than the 1113 term sheet changes will remain status quo.

In addition this from the Dallas Morning News
"But, as Lane reminded the airline and its unions, a rejection wouldn’t mean American would operate long without labor contracts. It would mean that the two sides would resume negotiations to find contract terms acceptable to both."

So if we are not to be long without contracts, and everything other than the 1113 term sheet modifications are to remain status quo. What the hell is it that you are so damn afraid of?

So the judge is going to release aa from bankruptcy without a consensual contract with apa,apfa and us right. His job is to have a viable company and aa won't be very viable if we have an imposed. What are you talking about 6 or 7 years? We have been 9 years in this contract since aa's last bankruptcy oh I mean twu screwing.

We had a deal in July 2010 that paid $37/hour. We voted it down because we were going to get better. And BK is just a threat.

 

[Vortilon]

After six to seven years of getting shafted on pay, retirement, and huge increases in outsourcing. Yes the ones that remained have finally passed us up. Big win Bob, real big win.

The "claim" is based on that no one has gotten a better contract immediately after BK. UA and US have taken six or more years to finally get "better" than us. Based on that we can expect up to that long. Can a judge impose a specific term? No. You think we should vote no, go through abrogation, and then go through section six. We can do that but when will the first meeting be? Right after abrogation? Extremely doubtful, the NMB will most likely not schedule a meeting until after AMR emerges from BK. So we are looking at May 2013 for the first section six meeting. Will we be starting fresh? We will be dealing with the "new AMR" and they will probably explain to the NMB that we need to start fresh. Here we go again, with the Local President Negotiating Team's track record we will probably not see anything for at least two to three years so now we are up to 2015. So then we can expect to get released finally late 2015 or early 2016. By that time the 40% OSS will be in place and 4,500 jobs lost later you will be asking us to go on strike.

Great plan Bob. Great plan.

You are a friggin disgrace! I read your posts, and wonder what kind of upbringing you had. I mean, what kind of nancy boy are you? In case you haven't noticed, not too many AA AMTs agree with you, and never will! I am still handing out more AMFA authorization cards. I am getting interest from facilities and automotive guys as well. There is no hope for the TWU!

 

[TWU informer]

We had a deal in July 2010 that paid $37/hour. We voted it down because we were going to get better. And BK is just a threat.

And I voted yes, but the majority spoke otherwise.
You might consider removing yourself from the past, and moving into the present.
This process could still have lengthy amount of time to play out.


Most, if not all, are pointing out current situation facts. You respond with something from 2010.
Consider moving your egoic mind into the present situation. Not only will this be more healthful for you, it will also make the discussion easier to follow.

If you want to discuss the past, then let's begin with 25+ years of TWU Industry Concessions.

Or we can once again discuss the James C Little claim of 3200 members not getting PIN numbers to vote on the 2003 sellout and then him signing the damn sellout "without further ratification".

Or we could discuss all the way back to 1947 and the fact only one member left on the seniority list could have possibly voted to select the TWU as the representation of choice.

How far would you like to go back?

 

[Rogallo]

You are a friggin disgrace!

Ain't he though..!!!
Nancy boy....Love it..!!

 

[767 mechanic]

We had a deal in July 2010 that paid $37/hour. We voted it down because we were going to get better. And BK is just a threat.

Same old thing avoid the questions and statements. You continually harp on the $37 an hour. Who would be making that money and how many? We the pro union crowd voted it down because it was a piece of crap that the twboo was trying to sell the membership. A contract should not have to be sold to the membership by the twboo it should sell itself if it is good enough. That contract and I use that term loosely was nothing more than a scam of putting $2 in one pocket and taking $6 out of the other. The twboo international said it was a good deal because they did not have to live under the contract. The people like Jim's sexatary still get her raises of considerably larger percentage than we do and she is suppose to work for us. Oh by the way Marlene are you going to chime in again? Is your husband going to have to call you at midnight again? Where are you at? Shouldn't you be at home in bed with your husband at midnight? Informer has stated that he voted yes,not because it was a good deal,but because it was the best deal that he thought the twboo could negotiate. That says alot about the quality of representatiion that we presently have selling us out.

 

[Buck]

We had a deal in July 2010 that paid $37/hour. We voted it down because we were going to get better. And BK is just a threat.

And the averaged wage with the OSM's is not worth mentioning or even their existence?

By the way if Crandall had been in his former position in 2003, he has stated that he would have filed at that time.