Come celebrate the first anniversary of AA's TWA purchase.

[TWAFA007]

Aloha rampguy,

HERE! HERE! Nicely put. Lets put this silly seniority issue to rest. This is Union vs Union, not employee vs employee. Thats the old management trick. TWA LLC F/As dont even belong to the IAM. They are dues paying APFA members. Lets just let the courts work it out and forget about it. The real issue we should all be working on is getting our fellow Brothers & Sisters back to work! That should be the priority. I think it is time to trim the fat and offer a meaningful buyout. It doesnt really matter what your seniority is, if you are not working. Peace to everyone.

Oh, to keep on topic, everyone come to the party and we can talk mano y mano.

ALOHA, 007
APFA Member

 

[bagsmasher]

Give me a break! All this peace talk while you and your TWA cronies are trying to go to the top of the seniority lists and put AAer's on the street.
What makes you think a judge will give you DOH? An arbitrator decided our fate for the TWU. He definately was biased, and did everything he could to interpret his way around our contract, but he still didn't give everyone DOH.
You guys quote past merger's. Which of these involved a company on the verge of shutting down, and in BK court? Calling it Carty's idea for BK. It looks to me like AA's legal department was just a little smarter than TWA's. Guess what, NOBODY wanted TWA before the BK, and after BK it was only AA that provided a credible bid. If we could only turn back the hands of time, and have Ichan figure out a way to keep you guys. Wouldn't that be wonderful!

 

[FA Mikey]

TWAFA007: HERE! HERE! Nicely put. Lets put this silly seniority issue to rest.

mike says: It has been at rest. The problem is. You like to bring it up. Time and time again.

 

[FA Mikey]

Mr Markey says: TWU, was the only AA union on the property which actually used an arbitrator/mediator as promised, to determine seniority.

Mike says: AA promised to provide a facilitator. There was never an agreement to force anyone in to using one.

 

[FA Mikey]

MR Marky: Hi Mikey--Just a technical correction for you:

You keep stating that the TWA people freely gave up their rights to seniority. Nothing could be further from the facts. The TWA unions were given an ultimatum. It was essentially that they either waive the scope and successorship clauses in their contracts, or the contracts would be nullified and voided in their entirety. As I recall, they did so (with a gun to their head) after AA had given assurances of a fair seniority integration including I believe, sworn testimony by Carty to that effect. If I'm wrong, please correct me. It has been stated by some knowledgable attorneys that a contract or agreement is not valid if it is entered into under duress.

Mike says: So that was the choice. Whats the problem. AA wasn't goig to operate another airline with in AMR with out a contract or union. There would be hell to pay if they had tried. From every union and employee here at AA as well as the AFL-CIO.

It was hardly a gun to there head. No one at the time said. Hey we are doing this but it is wrong. No they signed on the dotted line and went on with things. Duress? Please, job security, pay raises a new lease on life. As it was there contracts were amended to closly match ours. Worst case AA could have ended those contracts and instituted the AA company agreements.

So as it turns out. The issue is settled. The fair seniority agreement is out and this should end. Every TW employee has gotten a better deal than every other airline person here has got. They got better than even in house transfers. To say they deserve to be senior to those who made this company there career and lives is absurd.

 

[rampguy]

....and he continues his whinning

 

[AC AA LA FA]

I saw this topic and two pages of postings and refuse to read thru this dead issue...Things are not perfect fot TWers, nothing ever is, but it is good and fair..Simply said..why for a minute would anybody at a failing carrier..being aquired by the worlds largest and strongest..bulilt by its dedicated employees over the years think they would come before them in any way....are you all crazy? Twers were comfortably accomidated, and welcomed..and considering the circumstances now....you all got a hell of a deal......save what dignity you have left and move on...or....we can show you the door with no love lost....we have a great airline to keep up and running....enough said.............AC

 

[AAquila]

Got back last night to STL and now I'm reading all my emails. Holy smokes !!! I don't know but I think this is going to be way more than 200 people. I've been doing this I kid you not...since about 11am today. I have not stopped reading emails and trying to answer the ones that needed individual attention. I've also been informed that somehow this info got on the internet and they're saying this whole thing is a hoax. Well, it is real and we'll need to keep spreading the word that it IS HAPPENING ....MONDAY OCT 7th starts at 8pm ends when they close. Last time I spoke to the sales Mgr. Renee he offered the room rates at 99 per night for our group. The DJ will be on that night, extra staff and plenty of booze. They will be preparing some appetizers and will be served buffet style in the dinning room. The bar, lounge, dining room and courtyard will be available for us with a possibility of the Ballroom(holds 600) on standby in case this goes over 200 people. And I think this will go over by the looks of it. This can be a turnout of anywhere between 200-500 people. Collections will be made for any charges to the DJ and staff ,on the night of the party. I will make all the neccesary announcements that night. Reminder....don't forget to wear the TWA brand in any form. This is a very informal gathering but with a hell of a lot of our TWA family coming from all corners of the country. There are also some from the AA family coming from DFW as well. I would like all to help me remind everyone to be smart and not drink and drive that night. Many will be sharing rooms at the hotel and if there's anyone left out that night, please let me know so we can put them in someone's room. I want all to be safe. I will be leaving for NY on Sunday night, but will ck my email from Karina's house. The number for the Ramada is (718) 995-9000. See you all there (God willing) I hope this is as great as I intended it to be.

Love to all,

Adriana





For every mountain of truth, you never climb in vain.
You either already reached a high point today or you
exercise your strength in order to be able to climb higher tomorrow.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[ART]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/1/2002 5:23:46 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Mr Markey says: TWU, was the only AA union on the property which actually used an arbitrator/mediator as promised, to determine seniority.

Mike says: AA promised to provide a facilitator. There was never an agreement to force anyone in to using one.
----------------
[/blockquote]

FA Mikey the diatribe is getting old. Face the facts, there is a VERY large risk of losing your union and having it decertified as the bargaining agent. AA would love to see that. So in a way, welcoming the TW people would be in your long term financial and emotional interest. See the posts on the AA starts HNL OGG thread. The whole thing is there laid out for you and all to see.
.
It is not a threat, it is not a promise, it is pure legal logic. Call the APFA attorneys yourself and stop taking the word on one individual as truth.
After all the road to peace goes through a difficult territory called trust and forgiveness. The TW employees providing you with routes, equipment and a snapped in improved botttom line would welcome both from you.

 

[Bob Owens]

Art;
I didnt see the thread.
How would the APFA become decertified? I'm curious as to what you based your opinion on.

 

[Boomer]

Art,

Where was the information about the F/A Union being decertified? Is there currently a card drive among the LLC/AA Flight Attendants for another Union?

Usefull information can be found at this site:

NMB Representation Manual
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/repman06...0601.html#6.601

6.601* Percentage of Authorizations Required

If the craft or class involved in the investigation is represented for Railway Labor Act purposes and is covered by a valid existing contract between any such representative and the Carrier, the application must be supported by a majority (more than 50%) of valid authorizations from individuals in the craft or class. In all other circumstances, an application must be supported by at least thirty-five (35) percent of valid authorizations from individuals in the craft or class. The percentage of authorizations required in a merger is governed by Section 19, Merger Procedures.

Section 19 would not appear to be applicable due to the NMB decision regarding the representation of the former LLC F/A's:
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter200...002/29n049.html

Going the decertification route would be more problematic due to the numbers required. From the NMB representation determination,American employs 22,860 employees covered by this application. TWA-LLC employs 4,055 Flight Attendants.

 

[FA Mikey]

Art no on eis forceing you to read or respond. We are not at risk of losing anything. The lawsuit is baseless and frivilous. It will be thorwn out like all the ones before it.

 

[Tharseo]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/1/2002 142 PM MrMarky wrote:

Finally, the TWA pilots have an interesting lawsuit of their own pending. They allege that their union, ALPA, was secretly working in collusion with the AA pilots union, APA, against them, and without their knowledge. The contention is that ALPA was trying to court the AA pilots into their union and that fullfiling their obligations to their own TWA members would have been counterproductive to achieving the goal of winning representation of AA pilots, a much larger group. [/blockquote]

The TWA pilots putting forth this lawsuit are as stupid as they were when they pursued the integration process with APA thinking they could actually dictate the terms or win in Court. The tenets of this lawsuit come right out of some X-Files television series and illustrate how vacant any thought process is with the TWA dark side favored so much by twaokc (who despite claims to the contrary is a 1996 hire soon to be furloughed).

Marky should try to savor the food on American Airlines flights more and dabble in union politics less. Not only does he not have a bone in the fight, Marky has no real information but just carries his bias for TWA like keeping his feelings on his sleeve. So while he may be shocked to read the allegations, the serious of the charge has nothing to do with the facts at hand.

 

[twaokc]

Tharseo,

1996 new hire!!!!!!!Where do you get your information???
I started for Ozark back in the 60's while you were still in diapers. I retired in 93, probably before you started your career. Alot of people on here know me, and I assure you, I retired from TWA and am very glad that I did. I always said, I did not care which airline I worked for, as long as it was not American. Ramble all you want, but most people know the turth about me, and about how this merger should have been handled and how it will be handled by the courts. Why are all the AA posters on this board so negative??? I await your answers on this....
Carl

 

[Tharseo]

If you're not a 1996 hire, your post back on 8/20 was lifted by a particular 1996 hire and put verbatim on Smilin' Jack's. Since not that many people post, I suspect you and MD80 Flyguy are one and the same.[BR]