Common Denominators For Failure

[rotate]

What are the common denominators for failing airlines?

Is it poor management? If so, why is it true that managers who have been very successful in other industries fail only when they run airlines? Very often, managers that have been driven out of their jobs by recalcitrant employees go on to successful careers in other industries.

But every single airline that has employees represented by ALPA, IAM, AFA are failing. The only difference among them are how far along they are in the process.

The unions that are leading airline employees are leading them off a cliff.

 

[Vikedog64]

What are the common denominators for failing airlines?

Is it poor management? If so, why is it true that managers who have been very successful in other industries fail only when they run airlines? Very often, managers that have been driven out of their jobs by recalcitrant employees go on to successful careers in other industries.

But every single airline that has employees represented by ALPA, IAM, AFA are failing. The only difference among them are how far along they are in the process.

The unions that are leading airline employees are leading them off a cliff.

[post="178870"][/post]​

A great observation!

 

[Vikedog64]

What are the common denominators for failing airlines?

Is it poor management? If so, why is it true that managers who have been very successful in other industries fail only when they run airlines? Very often, managers that have been driven out of their jobs by recalcitrant employees go on to successful careers in other industries.

But every single airline that has employees represented by ALPA, IAM, AFA are failing. The only difference among them are how far along they are in the process.

The unions that are leading airline employees are leading them off a cliff.

[post="178870"][/post]​

There are some airlines that are heavily represented by unions that are doing o.k. (LUV). The problems arise when companies have financial trouble. Unions are slow to help out.

 

[L1011Ret]

Carl Icahn observed unions own airlines, not shareholders...

 

[Dave]

Carl Icahn is a scumbag that would sell his mother if thought he could make a profit.

 

[gatemech]

You can't tell me that UAL is in trouble because of the unions.

Wolf forced the failed ESOP down our throats.

Goodwin's failure to honor the contracts by having a seamless negotiation after the ESOP.

Goodwin caving in to the pilots giving them more than they asked for.

Goodwin's failed merger with USAir.

Goodwin starting Avolar. (Never got off the ground)

Creighton did nothing.

Tilton didn't or still doesn't know the airline industry.

Tilton & Ted. Jury still out on that one. I believe the money didn't need to be spent on paint & other gimmicks. All they needed to do was to offer lower fairs on the routes that Ted is now flying.

The unions have taken a beating. Employee's are very bitter.

 

[autofixer]

Could it be that poor managers use unions as a scapegoat or cruch for their poor performance?

 

[Bigsky]

Typical anti-union rhetoric. You might continue your research a bit further. The airline with the strongest pilots union is argueably NWA. So how are they doing in todays environment as compared to the other legacy carriers. Financially, they are the most secure.
What I find crazy is the constant comparing of small little companies like Jetblew who cherry pick the profitable routes of the majors to keep them in the black.

Cheers

Bigsky

 

[rotate]

There are some airlines that are heavily represented by unions that are doing o.k. (LUV). The problems arise when companies have financial trouble. Unions are slow to help out.

[post="178878"][/post]​

Please note that I specifically identified three unions that are common to failing airlines. Some unions have reaped the benefits of behaving responsibly. The unions at WN are not industry unions, they only represent employees at WN.

 

[rotate]

You can't tell me that UAL is in trouble because of the unions.

Wolf forced the failed ESOP down our throats.

Goodwin's failure to honor the contracts by having a seamless negotiation after the ESOP.

Goodwin caving in to the pilots giving them more than they asked for.

Goodwin's failed merger with USAir.

Goodwin starting Avolar. (Never got off the ground)

Creighton did nothing.

Tilton didn't or still doesn't know the airline industry.

Tilton & Ted. Jury still out on that one. I believe the money didn't need to be spent on paint & other gimmicks. All they needed to do was to offer lower fairs on the routes that Ted is now flying.

The unions have taken a beating. Employee's are very bitter.

[post="178899"][/post]​

I never said UA had good management, now did I? What I said was EVERY SINGLE AIRLINE whose employees are represented b ALPA, IAM and AFA are failing. That is the common denominator. Poor management only compounds the failures at these companies.

You need to recognize things are bad at all these airlines no matter how many CEOs the unions force out.

Forcing out Edwardson didn't save UA. Forcing Carty out hasn't saved the employees at AA. Things are MUCH BETTER since Siegel was forced out, of US, right? And oh, getting rid of that Mullin guy at DL really boosted the fortunes of their employees.

Wake up. All these airlines are failing NO MATTER WHO MANAGES THEM.

Why???

 

[rotate]

Carl Icahn is a scumbag that would sell his mother if thought he could make a profit.

[post="178892"][/post]​

Granted. But the only place he ever lost money was in the airline business.

WHY?

 

[casual rat]

Maybe its because they don't charge enough money for airfares....I dunno, call me crazy.

 

[rotate]

Typical anti-union rhetoric. You might continue your research a bit further. The airline with the strongest pilots union is argueably NWA. So how are they doing in todays environment as compared to the other legacy carriers. Financially, they are the most secure.
What I find crazy is the constant comparing of small little companies like Jetblew who cherry pick the profitable routes of the majors to keep them in the black.

Cheers

Bigsky

[post="178955"][/post]​

A muscle bound contender among losers! Yeah, right. NW is in trouble, too. Wake up!

 

[WorldTraveler]

NW's cost structure is not sustainable and will be even more out of line when DL completes its restructuring. NW has not been willing to force change as DL has done by running its finances down to create a crisis. NW will have to deal with its costs in order to be viable.

 

[maddogdriver]

Mr/Mrs Rotate:

For your information, Carl Ichan didn't lose a DIME in the airline industry. He bought TWA, sold it off in pieces, and left the company on life support with millions tucked away in his pockets.

Rotate stated:


"Granted. But the only place he ever lost money was in the airline business.

WHY?"


Your attempt to use the parallel of ALPA/IAM doesn't work..........at least at TWA. TWA employees were drastically underpaid during his time in charge......yet they never made money. You tell me why. Carl Ichan was a SCUMBAG and he would sell his soul to the devil for a profit.