Consolidation

[operaations]

I do not wish any airline to go under and be forced to liquidate. But it seems to me that it needs to happen. More and more airlines go to CH 11 and seek protection. We gave up alot of pay, and benifits, and we as employees of AA are suffering the high cost of living with out any relief in sight. I dont know about anyone else but I think the only way a Large Airline will become profitable again is to see one or two of the Legacy Carriers go away. Not merge with anyone else just go away. Less seats in the air and more demand.

I am not looking for the usual Management bashing, or union bashing, just a discussion on opinions of consolidation.

 

[robbedagain]

do you think that may be a merger would be a better option as long as say they put a number of planes parked such as in the case of usair--60 planes parked in their prcedure to merge? I wouldnt want to see any airline go away but I think may be mergers might be a better option as long as large numbers of planes are parked.

 

[operaations]

I think Delta and American would be a good fit. Delta used to have a base here at DFW and AA could Use Atlanta and the East coast routes.

I think Delta and AA would be a great fit.

 

[air_guy]

I think Delta and American would be a good fit. Delta used to have a base here at DFW and AA could Use Atlanta and the East coast routes.

I think Delta and AA would be a great fit.

[post="301250"][/post]​

All Delta adds is its ATL hub in the est coast. It has a limited network to Europe or Latin America and almost no presence in Asia. DL/NW would make sense combining little overlapping networks but AA/NW would be much stronger. UA and CO or UA and DL would also make sense.

 

[usfliboi]

AAny one think it was just a co inky dinky NWA an DAL filed bk on same day? NOT

 

[WorldTraveler]

air guy,
you obviously are not aware that Delta is still the largest US airline to Europe. So far, this year, Delta has carried more passengers to Europe and offers more seats than AA. If being the leader in a market is leading, then I guess that makes AA and UA insigificant to Europe.

consolidation is not likely to happen while so many carriers are in bankruptcy. It is generally not in creditors interests to plan toward mergers while a company is in bankruptcy. It is more likely that all of the current airlines in BK will emerge independently and then merge later. It is possible that creditors cmtes could be joined to find a best interest for both parties but that is quite rare.

Some of the largest bankruptcies have been filed in the Southern District of NY where both DL and NW filed. That court is generally considered to be favorable to business. The court will be able to move the process along quickly because so many of the financial institutions involved are so close, making it possible for them to monitor the situation closely. As for the date, NW wasn't expected to file; their filing was not complete as of the close of business yesterday so they filed electronically through the night. The fact that they are not able to obtain DIP financing because of a lack of available collateral made it necessary for them to stop letting cash go out the door; the fact that a pension payment was due today forced the issue.

 

[HGIEFOswitch]

Are you sure DAL is bigger than AA in Europe? I know they fly to more cities, but I'm sure I saw in ATW that AA flys more seats/pax.

 

[Hatu]

One way in which Delta and Northwest might emerge from bankruptcy to challenge American and Continental is by joining forces. Industry observers are already speculating about such an outcome.

"We would not at all be surprised if Delta and Northwest pursued a merger," says Helane Becker, airline analyst at Benchmark Co., a New York-based brokerage firm that does no investment banking. "They have very little route overlap. Northwest is strong in Asia/Pacific, and Delta has strong Atlantic and Latin American operations."

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/markets/ro...10242899_3.html

 

[george]

Are you sure DAL is bigger than AA in Europe? I know they fly to more cities, but I'm sure I saw in ATW that AA flys more seats/pax.

[post="301622"][/post]​

 

[TheDog2004]

AA may fly more passengers but they are almost all to London. Take away London and AA's presence in Europe is tiny compared to Delta and Continental.

 

[skyflyr69]

I do not wish any airline to go under and be forced to liquidate. But it seems to me that it needs to happen. More and more airlines go to CH 11 and seek protection. We gave up alot of pay, and benifits, and we as employees of AA are suffering the high cost of living with out any relief in sight. I dont know about anyone else but I think the only way a Large Airline will become profitable again is to see one or two of the Legacy Carriers go away. Not merge with anyone else just go away. Less seats in the air and more demand.

I am not looking for the usual Management bashing, or union bashing, just a discussion on opinions of consolidation.

[post="301140"][/post]​

I have to agree. Seeing Delta or NWA liquidate would be good for the industry. we need less capacity. But i see them shrinking and passing on pension benefits to us taxpayers thru the PBGC. that has got to stop.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL and NW will cut domestic connecting capacity which benefits only themselves. If my guesstimates are right, DL carries the highest percentage of connecting passengers while NW is probably somewhere not too far back in the lineup.

Also, AA and DL have considerable overlap in the northeast and it is only growing as DL builds up JFK. I doubt very seriously if the DOJ would allow DL and AA to merge w/o some major asset divestitures which would reduce DL down just to ATL; DL has a considerable presence in the NE and I don't think it benefits the estate to peel away the best parts of the company in order to make a merger fit w/ AA. Bankruptcy is all about increasing value to the estate which means DL will find a partner that best fits w/ its network - current and planned.

Switch,
you can compare DL and AA's transatlantic size by looking at their system traffic reports which are sent out every month. Each entity is detailed.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

I think DL and AA are a good fit. I think reducing CVG greatly, SLC a little and targeted divestiture of flying out of NYC would do it. If AA were to give up its LHR rights, it could get ATI with BA as the new, expanded AA. I suppose the combined carrier would rationalize and reduce some Florida flying, as well. Of course, their fleets are compatible.

It seems to me that it really isn't a huge hit to DL's system to imagine consolidation with AA.

I still think that DL and NW aren't great together.... lot's of hubs in medium markets.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Suggesting that DL dumps a bunch of NYC revenue and/or AA dump its LHR rights is not at all likely to happen.

ATL and DTW are pretty large cities that generate an aweful lot of international travel. MSP is a smaller city but NW actually generates more local revenue from there than they do from DTW because they own a higher percentage of the market. CVG and MEM are probably not needed in a DL/NW merger. There is some duplication between SLC and MSP that would be reduced but a combined DL/NW would not exactly be relegated to the backwaters of the US.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

well, I'd prefer that DL merge with NW, but I'm just underwhelmed.