TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
Are you off your rocker.
Six years of concessions and you actually think I am going to go out there and look for work to do.
That was one of your best posts yet
ROFLMAO
Corporate Security Raids LGA Locker Room
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Are you off your rocker.
Six years of concessions and you actually think I am going to go out there and look for work to do.
That was one of your best posts yet
ROFLMAO
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
As a paying flying customer, I insist that that is exactly what you do.
Take your disgruntlement out on your employer in some other way that doesn't jeopardize my safety when I patronize your airline and make what salary you do get, possible.
Unless of course, you'd prefer AA customers leave and make the salaries of another airline's employess possible instead?
Hopeful
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How do you know they didn't?
You are assuming that these guys slept when they shouldve been working. Did you ever think think that their work was done and their paperwork signed?
If they signed for something they did not do, then they jeopardize losing their licenses. And they deserve that.
Gee, I wonder what is worse! Sleeping after one's work is done, or doing, say what the ENRON executives did?
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
Yeah try flying Jetblue or SWA to LHR
and if you really think I care if you fly another carrier you are way to full of yourself.
When your arse leaves the seat there will be another one to take your place.
So do what you gotta do.
😀
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
And that is the exact attitude of labor that entices AMR to make contract negotiations as difficult as possible. Giving two shitz about your customers goes a long way. When paying passengers learn of your attitude regarding their patronage, they begin to wonder if it is safe to fly your carrier and start looking elsewhere. Chase a customer away once, and they are liable to stay with what they found to replace you. Believe me, I don't like hearing that the mechanics that were working on an aircraft I'm about to ride in, whipped it out as quickly as possible so they could go sleep in the locker room. My confidence in the safety of the aircraft goes way down, as does my patronage of the carrier in general.
That IS how it works. You know in contract negotiations, AMR is going to bring this up. You can't have the support of the general flying public when they hear stuff like this. When you chase off business, you chase off the airline's need for your services.
Hopeful
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We tried that. We gave pack a slew of concessions while the executives continued to share their rewards!
Here's a novel idea, try giving two "shitz" about your employees first, in turn the customer reaps the rewards, not just the executives!
The fact is that most malfunctions happen at power up, thus kickoffs are more prone to delays. As far as checking and rechecking some things are only supposed to be checked once a day, repeated checks could cause failure. Also many planes are not checked at all nowadays and if a mechanic goes over and checks a no-check and finds something he stands a good chance of getting written up.
AMR makes negotiations difficult because they are looking at cutting costs. PERIOD!!
You need to blame AMR for not caring about its customers. AMR has cut back on staffing and services to the point of sacrificing the great customer service we once offered. Employees are human, we can only endure so much under current conditions that we face everyday since we took massive concessions and staff reductions. Patronage can only go so far, it does not pay the bills anymore. We are trying to take care of our families with what we have to work with. Our aircraft are safe, just ask AA and the FAA. The level of safety as far as preventative maintenance has declined but this is what AA and the FAA have no problem with. Do you have any proof that AA technicians whipped your aircraft so they can go to sleep? Well do you?? Some maintenance tasks take longer than others, some technicians may do a the same job quicker than another for various reasons. Familiarity, tooling, weather, experience and so on. I may replace two tires on a 737 in 20 minutes with all the ground equipment available to me while another technician may take one hour because he is working in the rain or snow and the ground equipment takes longer to arrive due to field conditions. Does this mean that the technician who took 20 minutes whipped the tire replacements or took shortcuts? Does this suggest that the technician that took one hour was intentionally slowing down to piss off his supervisor or create an avoidable delay? Well does it? You obviously do not understand our work and the conditions we face from one job to another. We operate aircraft domestically in different environment's all over the US. Winter, summer, rain, snow, cold and extreme heat. What do you know about safety of an aircraft? Just what you read or hear from some reporting agency or columnist. Do you have access to all the maintenance records of the particular aircraft you are flying on? No you do not and neither do we as technicians. All records are stored in a permanent file. We have access to maintenance records of all work done for the last 30 days. Do you have maintenance records for your vehicle since you owned it? Did you comply with all the recalls and service bulletins on your vehicle? We do as airline technicians to make sure YOUR aircraft is safe and airworthy. I'll bet our aircraft are safer than the vehicle you drive.
Let me tell you how it works in contract negotiations. MONEY and COST CUTTING!!
Save as much as you can to turn a profit. Support of the general public has NOTHING to do with contract negotiations. We as employees do not chase business away. Passengers make their choice based on PRICE and Scheduling. They always come back after they swear up and down I will never fly American again. If a customer gets chased away it is because of AMR not the employees. We follow AMRs rules and regulations. If you do not like the way AMR conducts business write them a letter. Good Luck. I think you should keep your unprofessional comments to yourself because it is obvious to me that you have no clue as to what our job is all about. Just keep reading the newspapers and watch CNN all will be OK.
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
They should charge people like you twice as much so this airline could make a profit.
Instead of the execs taking care of themselves maybe they should take care of the people who take care of you.
They choose not to and ticket prices remain low and what we have is coorporate greed and a work force that could care less. When AA goes out of business someone else will fly the routes. i hope for your sake they take care of the employees in order to avoid another message board like this one.
As far as your patronage
BLAH BLAH BLAH
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
You want to bring up work ethic. Maybe you should start with corporate America. Better yet AA management. Your double standard makes me sick. The first thing they should outsource is AA management . That would be a start in the right direction. Dude put down the peace pipe
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
Made a call
Tomorrow is the 29F and all 8 will be terminated
Of course the union will grieve it and it will go to arbitration.
It may be some time before these guys come back if ever.
Now maybe the moderator can close this thread until the arbitration hearing
Tomorrow is the 29F and all 8 will be terminated
Of course the union will grieve it and it will go to arbitration.
It may be some time before these guys come back if ever.
Now maybe the moderator can close this thread until the arbitration hearing
T
The Goose
Guest
We all know what this about - customs and practices are tolerated by (mis)management until they need a better card to draw in order to keep their job. At that point, their people are dropped in the crapper - this is not a new concept, rather, it's obviously one that is ignored time and time again. It sounds to me as if 8 people broke the primary rule of employee/management relations; company people (or the wanna-be rats) are not to be trusted in any way, shape, or form with regard to any side agreement not contained in the CBA or addressed in a LOA. Never allow yourself to get in a position where you're dependent upon the "honor" of management as they have none; that was proven beyond a doubt when they took a salaried position.
The work in question may well have been done for the night; immaterial. There's a salaried individual (or a damned wanna-be) that needed a brownie point or two in the present business climate.
There may well have been a deal in place between the mechs and company people, but one has to remember what that company man will do if cornered. This isn't a judgement as to whether or not one should be sleeping on the job as it's human nature to get away with what we can - it's a matter of keeping yourself above reproach and not giving the company any leverage against you at all, regardless of any unspoken agreement.
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
Clearly, many of you will continue to say whatever it takes to convince (mostly yourselves) that you are justified for sleeping on the job.
Until it is written in your contract, there is no justification.
1AA - as far as your rant goes, you're being typical. American Airlines f*&@ed you over and now whatever you want to do is justified. Downsizing, wage cutting, salary slashing and work rule changes are the song of the day in corporate America. They do what they have to do in order to stay in business or they ship the business, and the jobs, overseas - it really is that simple.
You don't have to convince me that post 9/11 you got a miserable deal from AMR because I know you did. However, I am not the one that approved the deal, your union/membership did. I'm not the one that proposed the deal, AMR/Union Officials did. I'm also not the one that sets pricing, which inherently controls your compensation. You would be hard pressed to find a post from me where I don't espouse the fact that AMR's executives are greedy bastards and the minions aren't paid a fraction of what they should be. I agree with all that and I say it often.
That being said - you are attacking for one reason, and one reason only; some of your union brothers broke the rules, got caught and were dealt with for doing so. Your position appears to be that I shouldn't be concerned about it because I don't know what it takes to do your job, or the jobs of any of your counterparts. Believe me when I tell you that it IS the concern of the people outside the system, i.e., your customers, that can make a difference. I refuse to believe that I am the only one who has ever written to the likes of Arpey, Horton and Garton regarding employee treatment, compensation and benefits, and the fact that the lack thereof is reflected in the level of service I receive for my money today, vs., what I received for it ten years ago. In fact, I know I am not the only one who has forwarded such concerns to the leaders of your company. I like to think it makes a difference - I want it to make a difference. You on the other hand appear to believe that I, and others like me should just shut the hell up about it because we don't know what it takes to do your job? Why does the phrase 'hypocritical horse's ass' come to mind?
The fact is, customers don't have to know what it takes to do your job to express concerns over how a company treats it's labor force, how it compensates them, or things like sleeping on the clock. I don't care that someone finishes assigned duties early, that does not give them carte blanche to go sleep for a few hours, especially when it is specifically forbidden by company policy. What it does is gives them an indication that perhaps they should report back to superiors to see if there is anything else to do to earn the balance of that shift's pay. Maybe these 8 guys did, and maybe their superiors said "nothing left to do, go kick back in the locker room" and only time will tell that tale. My gut instinct though, is that scenario isn't what happened at all, or they wouldn't have been paraded out the door.
So if I post something in the future on this board that is in support of labor at AMR, just keep in mind that from this point forward, I am supporting all the employees at AA . . . except you. That way neither of us will have to feel bad about any given situation being discussed as far as it concerns or affects you.
There are a lot of employees at AA that got, and are feeling, short changed since the sweeping reforms of 2003. However, many of you got to vote on those changes, and you accepted them as a represented group. More employees than not at AA, had no say whatsoever regarding their pay and benefit changes, AA just sent them all group memos through the system saying this is how it is, we're cutting your wages, taking away sick days, taking away holidays, taking away a week of vacation (which some had already used and had to actually give money back to the company!) and there will be no discussion. Oh, but they 'regretted' doing it to them.
I think that kind of situation would have pissed you union folks off even more. I mean, look how riled up some of you get when your counterparts are caught red handed violating company policy. The company has the audacity to enforce policy that has stood for years.
How dare they!
T4C - Bite me!
Until it is written in your contract, there is no justification.
1AA - as far as your rant goes, you're being typical. American Airlines f*&@ed you over and now whatever you want to do is justified. Downsizing, wage cutting, salary slashing and work rule changes are the song of the day in corporate America. They do what they have to do in order to stay in business or they ship the business, and the jobs, overseas - it really is that simple.
You don't have to convince me that post 9/11 you got a miserable deal from AMR because I know you did. However, I am not the one that approved the deal, your union/membership did. I'm not the one that proposed the deal, AMR/Union Officials did. I'm also not the one that sets pricing, which inherently controls your compensation. You would be hard pressed to find a post from me where I don't espouse the fact that AMR's executives are greedy bastards and the minions aren't paid a fraction of what they should be. I agree with all that and I say it often.
That being said - you are attacking for one reason, and one reason only; some of your union brothers broke the rules, got caught and were dealt with for doing so. Your position appears to be that I shouldn't be concerned about it because I don't know what it takes to do your job, or the jobs of any of your counterparts. Believe me when I tell you that it IS the concern of the people outside the system, i.e., your customers, that can make a difference. I refuse to believe that I am the only one who has ever written to the likes of Arpey, Horton and Garton regarding employee treatment, compensation and benefits, and the fact that the lack thereof is reflected in the level of service I receive for my money today, vs., what I received for it ten years ago. In fact, I know I am not the only one who has forwarded such concerns to the leaders of your company. I like to think it makes a difference - I want it to make a difference. You on the other hand appear to believe that I, and others like me should just shut the hell up about it because we don't know what it takes to do your job? Why does the phrase 'hypocritical horse's ass' come to mind?
The fact is, customers don't have to know what it takes to do your job to express concerns over how a company treats it's labor force, how it compensates them, or things like sleeping on the clock. I don't care that someone finishes assigned duties early, that does not give them carte blanche to go sleep for a few hours, especially when it is specifically forbidden by company policy. What it does is gives them an indication that perhaps they should report back to superiors to see if there is anything else to do to earn the balance of that shift's pay. Maybe these 8 guys did, and maybe their superiors said "nothing left to do, go kick back in the locker room" and only time will tell that tale. My gut instinct though, is that scenario isn't what happened at all, or they wouldn't have been paraded out the door.
So if I post something in the future on this board that is in support of labor at AMR, just keep in mind that from this point forward, I am supporting all the employees at AA . . . except you. That way neither of us will have to feel bad about any given situation being discussed as far as it concerns or affects you.
There are a lot of employees at AA that got, and are feeling, short changed since the sweeping reforms of 2003. However, many of you got to vote on those changes, and you accepted them as a represented group. More employees than not at AA, had no say whatsoever regarding their pay and benefit changes, AA just sent them all group memos through the system saying this is how it is, we're cutting your wages, taking away sick days, taking away holidays, taking away a week of vacation (which some had already used and had to actually give money back to the company!) and there will be no discussion. Oh, but they 'regretted' doing it to them.
I think that kind of situation would have pissed you union folks off even more. I mean, look how riled up some of you get when your counterparts are caught red handed violating company policy. The company has the audacity to enforce policy that has stood for years.
How dare they!
T4C - Bite me!
Simple, we get a workload assignment at the beginning of the shift. It tells us which opertations to do on an aircraft. Here is an example; all airplanes that overnight at least 4 hours get a transit check. This is a very basic check. We check oil, hydraulics, tires, brakes, crew oxygen, a preflight walk around of the outside and a qiuck walk through the cabin. The workload for that airplane might also include another operation or two. Maybe a engine boroscope or some mod we are doing. We also work any MCO items. These are the only things we do to that airplane. We don't find everything that can break in the am. It is impossible to give every airplane an overhaul every night.
Other airplanes at the station may be getting more intensive checks. The next level is a Layover check. It takes about twice as long as a Transit check. On top of the transit items we give the cabin a good look over, actaully look in the cargo pits, check all the lights, and do more cockpit checks. Do you check every system? No, the paperwork doesn't call for things like an autopilot checkout, so you don't do one. The Layover plane also most likely has other operation that we need to do just like the last one.
Simply put, we only do the jobs that are assigned to each airplane. You hope that in the course of the night you find everything that can be a line call out. Most of us do actually do more than the paperwork calls for. I said on a transit the cabin check is very basic. Many of us always eyeball the security of the emergancy equipment while we walk. A stupid missing seal on a fire extingusher or first aid kit is a call out. Other things that can delay the morning flight just decide to not work in the am. A hydraulic pump I am required to use during my walkaround might not work the next time it gets turned on. Same is true for the APU.
We do the work that is assigned. You always work with your eyes open looking for something around you that is just not quite right. Sometimes you find it, most of the times you are just looking at the same thing.
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