Could this have possibly been handled worse?

FWAAA

Veteran
Jan 5, 2003
10,251
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Yes, it''s all management''s fault. No way it''s anybody else''s fault.

No way could each union have put together a package of proposals eight weeks ago (about two weeks after it knew the number that AA demanded of each work group).

That would have represented true leadership. Instead, constant whining is the order of the day.

We have certainly learned that AA''s union leaders possess no real leadership skills - why bother, when management can be blamed.

All represented employees should keep this in mind when asking other carriers for jobs after AA''s eventual liquidation (which I sadly predict will occur prior to 2004).

But better to be the last hired at some other carrier than to have shown any leadership at AA. After all, AA management had it coming. It''s all their fault.
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,885
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www.usaviation.com
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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:

Yes, it''s all management''s fault. No way it''s anybody else''s fault.

No way could each union have put together a package of proposals eight weeks ago (about two weeks after it knew the number that AA demanded of each work group).

That would have represented true leadership. Instead, constant whining is the order of the day.

We have certainly learned that AA''s union leaders possess no real leadership skills - why bother, when management can be blamed.

All represented employees should keep this in mind when asking other carriers for jobs after AA''s eventual liquidation (which I sadly predict will occur prior to 2004).

But better to be the last hired at some other carrier than to have shown any leadership at AA. After all, AA management had it coming. It''s all their fault.

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This ignorance speaks for itself. Nothing else needs to be said.
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:

Yes, it's all management's fault. No way it's anybody else's fault.

Thats right, thats why they get the big bucks.

No way could each union have put together a package of proposals eight weeks ago (about two weeks after it knew the number that AA demanded of each work group).

You mean like the raises? How long did the company drag those talks out?

That would have represented true leadership. Instead, constant whining is the order of the day.

Yes, leadership in the fine tradition of Quisling & Chamberlain!

We have certainly learned that AA's union leaders possess no real leadership skills - why bother, when management can be blamed.

I agree, we should be preparing for the battle to come instead of trembling in fear.

All represented employees should keep this in mind when asking other carriers for jobs after AA's eventual liquidation (which I sadly predict will occur prior to 2004).

Yea OK. I'll survive, even if AA does not. Are you that pathetic that you feel the survival of AA is more important than your dignity?

But better to be the last hired at some other carrier than to have shown any leadership at AA. After all, AA management had it coming. It's all their fault.

Just explain to me how submitting to the unreasonable demands of the company, demands that will cause our standards of living to suffer is leadership? Leadership is innovation and progress, tell me how surrender, giving up nearly everything that we have worked for, for vauge promises and weak committments is leadership? Please give me an example from history of such leadership, one that we should strive to emulate.

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FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
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miami
goldwatermiller08.com
With a gun to the head and no real negotiations. The unions present these so called proposals to the membership for rejection or ratification. With 15 days to vote, the first group with language APFA out on the 10th. Pilots still waiting, AA changed and reneged on intent and certain language provisions. Now it seems every time I check something in the TA has changed. Adding so called raises, which is nothing more than a carrot on a stick, and a nearly unobtainable. Last night they shortened the duration of the agreement by 4 months.

This shows the complete desperation on the part of the company to lock employees in to these lower rates prior to the BK filing.
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:

Yes, it''s all management''s fault. No way it''s anybody else''s fault.
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They were the only ones with a gun in the so called negotiations room.


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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:
No way could each union have put together a package of proposals eight weeks ago (about two weeks after it knew the number that AA demanded of each work group).
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We did have a package drawn up by our team priced by AA''s numbers during the f/a''s negotiations as well as by our analysts. It totaled 340 million. AA never intended fair negotiation in the process. They threatened BK time and time again until all three had relented and taken Hits in excess of the asked for amounts. The unions have an obligation to bring it to the membership for ratification or rejection. If they had been empowered to decide on there own. This would have been settled on the 1st in BK court.

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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:
That would have represented true leadership. Instead, constant whining is the order of the day.

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You call it whining. But right now all we have is our mouths and fingers to share information on how AA has no desire operate or negotiate fairly. How AA seems to want agreements signed prior to BK. So any further negotiations would be from the current cuts, not from current pay scales.


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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:
We have certainly learned that AA''s union leaders possess no real leadership skills - why bother, when management can be blamed.
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There is true leadership in trying to avoid BK. In spite of the ugly, dirty things AA did in negotiations and the disgusting things they are doing now in changing agreed to language in to something that wasn''t. It took leaders to bring this filth to the membership for a vote.

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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:

All represented employees should keep this in mind when asking other carriers for jobs after AA''s eventual liquidation (which I sadly predict will occur prior to 2004).
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We see this from two different sides. I have to work under this kind of garbage. If AA makes it or not. They had a 60,000 union employees who were willing to make it work. Unfortunately. AA has an agenda and a plan that does require my input. So if the day you think AA will liquidate comes. I plan to be ready. Who knows I likely wouldn''t survive a second round layoff. Then I wont have to worry. I hope to be able to leave prior to having to hate coming to work. That would be the saddest thing for me.


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On 4/12/2003 3:09:10 PM FWAAA wrote:
But better to be the last hired at some other carrier than to have shown any leadership at AA. After all, AA management had it coming. It''s all their fault.

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In so many words, your correct. Its a shame to see it come to this, when the employees stood up and came to the table to offer cuts. Only to have a shaft handed to them to take back to the membership.
 

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