Cuts narrow NWA's deficit- but 1Q loss still $1.1 BILLION

[Kev3188]

On the notion that - the planes are actually DIRTY, Smelly, Broken (lavs, jumpseat, lights, ect) I surmrise that there is no good work being done and Northwest lost the quality workers they invested $ into.

Not to stray too far off topic here, but I think it's important to note that we serve a huge demographic (Asia) that equates "not clean" with "not safe."

 

[jenny@nw]

Jenny it will only affect those types when its one of their own family members which has to be identified thru DNA testing, and the treasured remains are returned in a shoe box. Even then I question the true impact it would have on some!

It'll scare away all the former greyhound passengers back to buying greyhound tickets.

All the more reason we should have/could have turned DLH into a profit center (ala Lufthansa Technik)...

Don't forget Airbus ... :unsure: or ... who was it?

Not to stray too far off topic here, but I think it's important to note that we serve a huge demographic (Asia) that equates "not clean" with "not safe."

Oh YES........ all though there are some hill billy type Asians.... they are not use to seeing dirty airplanes like NW. Seems like this airline doesn't care how they look. Quality is attrociously embarassing.

 

[jenny@nw]

Yea your probably right, your a pencil pusher bean counter who spends his days in atta boy meetings and living in a cubicle. Im just a lowly Mechanic with over twenty years experience in aviation maintenance who has personally seen and reworked that "work done more efficiently" by those "vendors" (Hack Shops) But hey you probably have a degree in finance which makes you more qualified to speak on such matters as quality maintenance.

I think one day.... if NW doesn't liquidate or get bought off at 2 cents a share... people who have absolutely NO EXPERIENCE working the frontlines should be made to work the frontlines.

It's a common misconception that if a person chooooses to do frontline work, they are uneducated or stupid.
Sometimes we just don't want to be stuck in some cubicle, networking and playing golf and talk about business over some drinks.

Networking, bolstering each others ego, going over the enviromental factors of the cyclical industry... ah...
looks like I might have to go back to that :censored: again.

Local 12, you are not a lowly mechanic of 20+ yrs. I love a man who can turn a wrench. Just ask my big daddy. :wub:
it use to turn me on when he use to teach me about "o" rings.

 

[700UW]

finman, go ask 700uw and other us air mechs. about the substandard maintaince that was performed on the Airbus planes once it was out of the Alabama HACK'N'SHACK. Needless to say, the cost of loss of revnue and unexpected emergence landings due to severe maintaince issues attributed to the Alabama HACK'N'SHACK caused to the company. That is very similar to what is currently occurring at SCAB AIR

The very first Airbus that Mobile Aerospace overhauled at US had an emergency landing on its first revenue flight, as did the second one, they did not properly rig the flaps.

One bus had the slide not working on the MED of the plane, they removed the girt bar locks and covered them over. When the slide was removed it looked like it was dragged along the hangar floor.

7 out of the 10 they did at Mobile had problems severe enough for the FAA to investigate and have US do more oversite.

They did not even match the right color paint on the touchup work on the fuselage.

Remember a vendor is driven by cost and has no alliegence or loyalty to the plane, a true airline AMT is driven by safety and the thought that him/her and their loved ones might fly on it one day.

 

[robbedagain]

that is so true 700. thanky ou for clarifying it. may be finman can learn more about that from you.

 

[Don Smith]

...I would think that the maintenance can be done just as safely and with the same degree of quality at a vendor, provided the vendor runs a high quality and efficient operation...

Therein lies the problem with THIRD-PARTY HACK SHOPS. They can never match the degree of quality that nwa shops turned out. All the bean counter sees is the cost. Local 12 is correct when he says that he has to repair the "repair" work performed by these vendors. I too have PERSONALLY seen the results of this work and spent many hours correcting it. But all a bean counter sees is the nwa mechanics at this station worked overtime that day. To answer Jenny's question, Yes, there is supposed to be a liason from Inspection on site. However, its is just one person. They can't be there 24/7 to monitor. All of this was pre 8/11/05. Who knows what the standard practice is now.

 

[jenny@nw]

To answer Jenny's question, Yes, there is supposed to be a liason from Inspection on site. However, its is just one person. They can't be there 24/7 to monitor. All of this was pre 8/11/05. Who knows what the standard practice is now.

Probably laid him off. Or the inspection/Q A meetings may be held at the local titty bar. Nasty Airline. <_<
Probably wants to do what Gary Wilson did with the two girls in Go Go boots in Tokyo. Blech.

 

[local 12 proud]

I think one day.... if NW doesn't liquidate or get bought off at 2 cents a share... people who have absolutely NO EXPERIENCE working the frontlines should be made to work the frontlines.

It's a common misconception that if a person chooooses to do frontline work, they are uneducated or stupid.
Sometimes we just don't want to be stuck in some cubicle, networking and playing golf and talk about business over some drinks.

Networking, bolstering each others ego, going over the enviromental factors of the cyclical industry... ah...
looks like I might have to go back to that :censored: again.

Local 12, you are not a lowly mechanic of 20+ yrs. I love a man who can turn a wrench. Just ask my big daddy. :wub:
it use to turn me on when he use to teach me about "o" rings.

Another misconception is that education equals intelligence, or intelligence equals education, for example neither Orville or Wilbur Wright had a high school diploma between the two of them, Their seldom remembered Mechanic Charles E. Taylor who is honored as being Aviations first mechanic had only a high school diploma, yet he designed and hand built the engine from the ground up that powered the wright flyer, otherwise it would simply have been a glider.

Thanks jenny, I don't consider what I do "lowly" at all, in fact I take much pride in being an AMT. I was just being facetious with finman. He obviously thinks one must be degreed in buisness in order to have an understanding of economics, but just because it looks good on paper does'nt necessarily make it practical.

Good for finny that he's able to sit behind a cubicle and crunch numbers all day long, If i had to do it I would probably pull my hair out, or go nuts and punch someone. to each his own as they say.

P.S. I know a few things about "O" rings and their variety of uses, and remember Its critical to always use lube. :blush:

 

[Kev3188]

Therein lies the problem with THIRD-PARTY HACK SHOPS. They can never match the degree of quality that nwa shops turned out.

DALMD88, one of the posters on this site summed it up best awhile ago in a DL thread. He was talking about the Widget, but I think it certainly applies here. To wit:

"DL mechs don't do Overhauls anymore. We do Afterhauls now."

 

[PlayTheOdds]

These third party vendors(hack shops) work on an extremely tight budget, they are usually penalized if the aircraft is not produced in a timely manner, most of the mechanics are low skill, many are drifters such as PTO. the hack shops discourage mechanics from looking for discrepancies...I can give reason after reason, but you seem to be of the opinion that its the same quality as in house.
Thats fine keep on believing it, I know better and so does PTO The legendary SCAB mouthpiece.

There are some issues with the third party shops just as there are issues with some airlines. Don't act as if it is strictly third party shops not being able to produce. Mobile probably being the worst MRO out there with San Antonio and North Carolina being tied for a close second. There are only two MRO shops that I work at on a regular basis with a third as an alternate depending on the workload of the other two. You are wrong about the tight budgets but you are dead on with the time pressures placed on the MRO's. This time issue is brought on by the MRO's themselves because it is used heavily in the bidding process for the contract. The problem with this is that they cut their time so lean that if anything goes wrong they can forget about making the scheduled delivery date. Now when this happens the MRO is paying a hefty fine to the company. Also there is a Company Rep on sight who is responsible for overseeing the maintenance being per formed. Problem he is usually looking over at least four aircraft at a time. He is also responsible for approving O&A's. This gets pretty heated between the company an MRO because O&A's can cause late delivery dates and if not bid right can cost the MRO a shet load of money. Also the company work packages are horribly put together translating into hundreds of lost man-hours just getting the packages straightened out. I have yet to see any facility be able to open an aircraft in a timely and logical manner. I did see one attempt it and pulled off the timely part but all efforts were wasted when days was spent trying to catch up all the packages.

Jenny@NW is right about the Company Rep being wined and dined. A lot of that goes on. You would also be surprised of how many of his buddies end up in management at the MRO.

Most of the issues with MRO's is generated by management and the companies themselves. Very little of the issues with the MRO's comes from the mechanics. We do have our scrubs but no more than you guys. The difference is that they get weeded out rather quickly at the MRO's but at the union shops they are there for the next twenty years at least.

 

[700UW]

Hey Scab,

MROs, are cheap, do shoddy work and have the dregs of society working there.

Explain to me how US Airways inhouse heavy got 28 Day Q-check on a 737-300 done 10 days early and ST MAE could not even come close to that?

And MAE uses more people working the aircraft then in-house mtc.

By the way US Airways is or has pulled all the 737s from Mobile and brought them all back in-house now, cause a vendor does shoddy work and could not get the planes done in time. (Under the IAM/US CBA US Airways is permitted to outsource 50% of the 737s to vendors for the heavy checks). And US is now pulling the 757s from Mobile and having them done in-house in PIT.

 

[local 12 proud]

There are some issues with the third party shops just as there are issues with some airlines. Don't act as if it is strictly third party shops not being able to produce.

Yes we all ready know about scabair NWA

 

[local 12 proud]

You are wrong about the tight budgets

Wrong again... that seems to be the excuse for everything at those hack shops, broken or delapidated tooling and equipment that never gets replaced or repaired. shortage of simple items such as air hoses, to ladders. anytime an issue was ever brought it was always the same answer!

" Sorry fellas its not in the BUDGET" It does seem odd how money would appear from nowhere when OSHA got involved.

 

[jenny@nw]

Wrong again... that seems to be the excuse for everything at those hack shops, broken or delapidated tooling and equipment that never gets replaced or repaired. shortage of simple items such as air hoses, to ladders. anytime an issue was ever brought it was always the same answer!

" Sorry fellas its not in the BUDGET" It does seem odd how money would appear from nowhere when OSHA got involved.

I even know this for a fact they are not just on TIME CONSTRAINTS but on a BUDGET. My former roomate, an "accidental scabanic supervisor" :down: even told me about how he had to tell some guys to go home since they didn't have enough money. THEN figure out a way to get some money to finish the job ASAP.

 

[local 12 proud]

We do have our scrubs but no more than you guys. The difference is that they get weeded out rather quickly at the MRO's

That is about the most laughable statememnt you've made to date. The difference being is the good ones who have a bit of Intelligence get the heck away from those hack shops ASAP. the ones who stay are the dregs, drunks, druggies, etc.. Oh and lets not forget the undocumented.

I even know this for a fact they are not just on TIME CONSTRAINTS but on a BUDGET. My former roomate, an "accidental scabanic supervisor" :down: even told me about how he had to tell some guys to go home since they didn't have enough money. THEN figure out a way to get some money to finish the job ASAP.

Excellent point jenny, though it was many years ago that I worked in a Shet hole third party hack shop I remember that exact same scenario.