Death Panels

[muff daddy]

Do you think it might have somethign to do with the fact that medicare cannot deny coverage or drop coverage? May be it had somethig to do with the fact that they had over 7 million claims in 2007 (latest year I could find info on) alone?

Cannot deny coverage?
I'm sure you can back that up.

 

[Ms Tree]

Go to the medicare web site. Enrollment is automatic once you hit 65 and collect SS. If you do not collect SS you need to enroll typically 3 month before you turn 65 (I had to help my dad with this).

Medicare is a government program and enrollment is automatic. I can find no examples of coverage being denied to anyone qualified.

 

[Ms Tree]

What Emanuel said from 1996 and up to 2009 were his views and those of others on the issues regarding life extending care options. During the Obamacare sales campaign ramp up.....Emanuel's views and opinions caused many to take a second look at what was being slammed on them and was noted as a major voter issue causing Emanuel to offer up a fact check article to negate the issue.

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions

Read the opening paragraph. The entire article deals with the alocation of scarce resources. The right has conveniently ignored this fact.

 

[SparrowHawk]

"Allocation of resources"

Hmm could this mean"It cost to much for granny to survive, We're only going to pay for her niece because it will result in more revenue for us if she lives and an older person dies?

Should these decisions be in the hands of those who gave you Waco & Ruby Ridge?

 

[southwind]

We'll see how Tree feels, when he's 65, needs hip-replacement and Obama Care pays for a cane and some aspirin...............after standing in line for 6 months !

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

"Allocation of resources"

Hmm could this mean"It cost to much for granny to survive, We're only going to pay for her niece because it will result in more revenue for us if she lives and an older person dies?

Should these decisions be in the hands of those who gave you Waco & Ruby Ridge?

You mean the FBI agents are going to be making calls on allocation of scarce amounts of organs for transplant?

Why not debate what the article has presented?

If you have only 100 hearts for transplant this year, and there are 2000 people on the transplant list needing one, how would you allocate it? Seniority?

From the essay;

"Ultimately, no principle is sufficient on its own to recognise all morally relevant considerations. Combining principles into systems increases complexity and contro- versy, but is inevitable if allocations are to incorporate the complexity of our moral values (table 2). People disagree about which principles to include and how to balance them. Many allocation systems do not make their content explicit, nor do they justify their choices about inclusion, balancing, and specification.1 Elucidating, comparing, and evaluating allocation systems should be a research priority.9"

That is essentially what the essay is discussing. Did you read it?

It is a very well written essay. It is very thought provoking.

By the way, insurance companies have been dealing with this issue for a long time, yet you trust them to use monetary factors as the sole guiding principle.

 

[muff daddy]

Go to the medicare web site. Enrollment is automatic once you hit 65 and collect SS. If you do not collect SS you need to enroll typically 3 month before you turn 65 (I had to help my dad with this).

Medicare is a government program and enrollment is automatic. I can find no examples of coverage being denied to anyone qualified.

I never said people are being denied coverage.
Under medicare people are being denied procedures and claims, more than most HC companies and under Obamacare you think it will get better?

Allocation of scarce resources, I like that definition, it's as clear as 'assault rifle'.
Bottom line is, like I said, Zeke was publishing, lecturing and pushing his new vision for medical cost savings and so on which includes his radical views, all was well until Obamacare was put up for sale to the public and this drove right into the death panel issue. So Zeke pops out a Fact Check - "I didn't mean that". OK you win, LOL

Funny thing about that is when Hillary became vice president and ran off with her Hillarycare secret meetings, these very same issues started to come out about denial of care and letting people die and so on.
Couldn't be an ideological issue.

 

[KCFlyer]

I never said people are being denied coverage.
Under medicare people are being denied procedures and claims, more than most HC companies and under Obamacare you think it will get better?

Could you cite one of those procedures? Medicare was willing to pay for my 78 year old dads second round of chemo treatments (he declined preferring quality of life over quantity). They were also willing to pay for the rehab of my 84 year old ex mother in law who broke her neck, leg wrist and ribs after falling down a flight of stairs. Again...citing quality over quantity, she opted to forgo food. So what procedures are they denying that a private insurer would have covered?

 

[Ms Tree]

Read post #151. That is exactly what you said. I stated that MC cannot deny coverage. You asked me to prove it. I did. Now you say you never said it. It's in black and white.

We have finite resources. Not everyone can get saved. I would rather have a system in place that is based on patient needs rather than the system we have in place now where an insurance company bases care on financial bench marks.

No system is perfect but the system we have now is FUBAR.

 

[Ms Tree]

"Allocation of resources"

Hmm could this mean"It cost to much for granny to survive, We're only going to pay for her niece because it will result in more revenue for us if she lives and an older person dies?

Should these decisions be in the hands of those who gave you Waco & Ruby Ridge?

So you are just going to make stuff up because reading it is to much trouble?

 

[Ms Tree]

We'll see how Tree feels, when he's 65, needs hip-replacement and Obama Care pays for a cane and some aspirin...............after standing in line for 6 months !

Can you substantiate this comment with any facts what so ever? We all know there is nothing in the Emanuel article to support it. Obama has never said anything to support it. So what do you have?

 

[muff daddy]

Read post #151. That is exactly what you said. I stated that MC cannot deny coverage. You asked me to prove it. I did. Now you say you never said it. It's in black and white.

We have finite resources. Not everyone can get saved. I would rather have a system in place that is based on patient needs rather than the system we have in place now where an insurance company bases care on financial bench marks.

No system is perfect but the system we have now is FUBAR.

Here is what I said and you missed from #144:

AMA claims the biggest denier of claims is Medicare above private insurance industry.

You twisted it around to being denied coverage somehow and with that I asked you rather sarcastically what I did in 151.

 

[Ms Tree]

I did not twist jack around. I simply stated that part of the reason their claim rejection rate is a bit higher is because 1. They have 7 million claims a year (substantially higher than most carriers) and 2. They do not have the luxury of denying or dropping coverage.

You then asked me to prove the claim which I did. Now you want to me this about denial of claims. Make up your treating mind what you want to discuss and get back to me.

Don't pull that sarcastic crap here because no one here including you believes that load of crap. You asked for proof and I gave it.

 

[muff daddy]

I did not twist jack around. I simply stated that part of the reason their claim rejection rate is a bit higher is because 1. They have 7 million claims a year (substantially higher than most carriers) and 2. They do not have the luxury of denying or dropping coverage.

You then asked me to prove the claim which I did. Now you want to me this about denial of claims. Make up your treating mind what you want to discuss and get back to me.

Don't pull that sarcastic crap here because no one here including you believes that load of crap. You asked for proof and I gave it.

Maybe I had one of these moments:

Typing on a cell phone is a ####. Should have read "So she should have passed on the surgery".

Obama wanted to do everything he could for his mom. It sounds like the doctors did not say that the hip replacement is not going to help her. It would have made them a butt load of cash so they advocated the procedure. A good doctor would have talked Obama and his family out of it in my opinion.

Duh, utter sarcasm.

 

[Ms Tree]

Give it a rest already. The surgery she did or did not have had no bearing on the point you were trying make. You asserted that Obama was trying to deprive care. The context of the comments he made make it very clear that you were lying just as your trying to weasel your layout of the comments you made here.