Delta Cancels B787 order with Boeing

[jimntx]

Order was for 18 787s and was assumed by Delta from Northwest in merger. At current list prices order was worth $4 billion. Ouch!

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delt...7-dreamliner-aircraft-001837942--finance.html

 

[jcw]

With DL taking so many AB wide bodies why put another type into the fleet plan - this makes sense - plus their drive to buy "used" planes at good prices really makes this a pretty straight forward decision - I know they are taking many new aircraft 737, 350, 330neo - they are the masters at deploying used planes

 

[eolesen]

DL has 7 744's, 58 763ER's and 12 7673's in the fleet, for a total of 77 widebody aircraft that are due for replacement based on relative age.

They only have 62 aircraft on order right now (35 A350 and 27 A330), so that leaves a bit of a hole in the replacement plan (~15 aircraft) if they're planning to do a 1:1 replacement like AA and UA seem to be doing.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Does this mean that ' DEL-DUH's ' International lift is or will be slowly shrinking, compared to AA or UAL ?

 

[jimntx]

No, Bears. All we can say at this point is Delta's International lift will not involve B787 aircraft ordered by Northwest. Since we do not know the terms of the agreement between Delta and Boeing that allowed this cancellation, there's not much speculation we can accurately pursue.

 

[eolesen]

It's too bad -- the 787 would have been perfect for the SEA hub.

The A350 has the same legs from SEA (perhaps more range, even) but has about 65-75 more seats to fill on a daily basis, which is rarely a good thing from a revenue perspective.

 

[Kev3188]

Does this mean that ' DEL-DUH's ' International lift is or will be slowly shrinking, compared to AA or UAL ?

Too early draw any conclusions, but I think we'll see more shifting of flying to codeshare/JV partners.

It's too bad -- the 787 would have been perfect for the SEA hub.

The A350 has the same legs from SEA (perhaps more range, even) but has about 65-75 more seats to fill on a daily basis, which is rarely a good thing from a revenue perspective.

+1

 

[topDawg]

DL has 7 744's, 58 763ER's and 12 7673's in the fleet, for a total of 77 widebody aircraft that are due for replacement based on relative age.

They only have 62 aircraft on order right now (35 A350 and 27 A330), so that leaves a bit of a hole in the replacement plan (~15 aircraft) if they're planning to do a 1:1 replacement like AA and UA seem to be doing.

DL only has 25 A350s on order, not 35.
but all 58 763ERs will not be replaced by this order. Expect another RFP in the next few years for more 767 replacements. Ed has already told employees the 787 will be looked at again.

Also 8 of the 763s (not ERs) are being replaced with 321s and 739s. These are 767-300s with CF6-80A engines and are domestic birds. The other 4 767-300s are PW4000 powered and aren't going anywhere right now.

but even if all 58 763ERs and 7 744s are replaced by the 52 330/350s capacity would be up just a little bit
350+333/339 is ~15,500 seats
763ER+744 is ~15,000 seats


IIRC the first batch of ~15 767-300ERs came from 91 to 93. Most or all of these are PW4000 powered. Also the 6 76G aircraft that came from Gulf Air(mostly) and have CF6-80C2B6 engines will probably go. I can't see Delta wanting to keep the small sub fleet of non-FADEC 763ERs. The 1995 and older birds will be replaced with the next RFP. (delivery starting in 2023 or 2024)

No, Bears. All we can say at this point is Delta's International lift will not involve B787 aircraft ordered by Northwest. Since we do not know the terms of the agreement between Delta and Boeing that allowed this cancellation, there's not much speculation we can accurately pursue.

exactly.
I still fully expect 787s to be in the fleet at some point.
The simple fact is the 787 has too much range (i.e. higher costs) to completely replace the 767. In a case like JFK-AMS that has a 763 on it, Delta can probably add a 333 to replace that 767 pretty easily and till get the margins they are looking for. So if Delta can fill a 338 or 339 on a route and still get the margins they are looking for, Delta is going to pay for the cheaper 330NEO.

IMO Delta will end up with a small fleet of 788 (much like American and United) for starter routes (both Atlantic and pacific) but use the 789/78J/332/333/339/359/777 on more established routes

Interestingly enough United is now talking about changing its A350-1000 order to A350-900s and/or A330(probably-900s). I could see them ending up with 330NEOs to replace some of its 767 aircraft.

Too early draw any conclusions, but I think we'll see more shifting of flying to codeshare/JV partners.

DALPA keeps failing on upper end scope this is also an issue.
but the Transatlantic is soft and overcapacity. As long as that is an issue we will keep seeing capacity cuts across the Atlantic from the big three and joint venture partners.


however more growth is planned for the Pacific once the new terminals in SEA and LAX are done.

 

[topDawg]

I don't know why i didn't quote all of this in a single post, sorry mods.

With DL taking so many AB wide bodies why put another type into the fleet plan - this makes sense - plus their drive to buy "used" planes at good prices really makes this a pretty straight forward decision - I know they are taking many new aircraft 737, 350, 330neo - they are the masters at deploying used planes

Used wide bodies are mostly out of the picture. Doing a cabin re-fit plus an overhaul/getting the aircraft maintenance to Delta standards is not nearly as cheap as doing so with a narrow body.
Sure if a great deal comes up Delta will likely move but for the most part I would expect used (active) frames to only show up in the narrow body fleet.

Having said that Delta is still going to be very active in the part out market. They just bought a few MD11s for part out (engines)

It's too bad -- the 787 would have been perfect for the SEA hub.

The A350 has the same legs from SEA (perhaps more range, even) but has about 65-75 more seats to fill on a daily basis, which is rarely a good thing from a revenue perspective.

remember, SEA is close enough that 330s can be used for just about everything. Also some routes are 767s due to lack of availability of larger aircraft at the moment. I fully expect SEA-PVG and HKG to go A350 or 777. ICN, especially if Delta and Korean get closer, could go 330 or 350 or 777.

Also expect a new HKG route to be announced for 2018. Either DTW or LAX. FWIW both of those will likely be the initial A350 bases. DTW first then LAX.