Delta Death Watch

[freedom]

I'm going to give delta toward the end may , having cut the defined pension plan has most likely only made their pilots more bitter... there comes a point when folks become SO disgruntled they'd rather see the entire company go down in flames... i think that time is coming ....
so lets say may 26th

 

[Ch. 12]

I'm going to give delta toward the end may , having cut the defined pension plan has most likely only made their pilots more bitter... there comes a point when folks become SO disgruntled they'd rather see the entire company go down in flames... i think that time is coming ....
so lets say may 26th!

Let's say you get a life, B.O.B.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

freedom...B O B, or whomever.

I expect that the VAST majority of us posters here, do NOT want to see that happen to anyone working for DL !!!!!!!!

(sadly) the Pension(s) may go, but as to DL going BK-7, THAT is a bit premature.

1. If Dalpa's contract is thrown out, and the Pilots strike

"It's over for everyone"


2. If Dalpa's contract is thrown out, the Pilots could say(BEFORE DL Imposes a "new" pay scale);

a. "$325M = a STRIKE" !!!
b. " We offered you $150M, we NOW offer you $200M, and

ANYTHING More = a STRIKE" !!!

"$325M minus $200M equals $125M."
"GO get the $125M SOMEWHERE ELSE" !!!!!

IMHO, I see, in a scenario like THAT, that DL gets the "$125M"...SOMEWHERE ELSE, BEFORE they risk a STRIKE !!


NH/BB's

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

The END is near. I expect Delta to be gone before years end.



BUT!....they can always apply at other airlines and start over at the bottom.

 

[jj]

The END is near. I expect Delta to be gone before years end.
BUT!....they can always apply at other airlines and start over at the bottom.

I hate to break it to everybody but DELTA is not going anywhere.The city of Atlanta dos not want to lose a world class carrier for a Greyhound one like Airtrash.good luck DELTA give im hell.

 

[aislehopper]

Let's say you get a life, B.O.B.

While I do agree with you that B.O.B. needs to get a life, I do not not think that this poster is the same person as B.O.B./wrx/travis/liveinahotel.

This guy writes better and is less dogmatic.

 

[luv2fly]

As a DL pilot this is strictly my opinion.
There will some kind of negotiated settlement in the 12th hour. If there is not, and the company attempts to impose its proposal, there will be a strike for the first time in DL's history. It would most likely lead to Ch 7. for DL. I do not think a court will grant an injunction, and even if they did, a mass exodus would occurr. Any exodus will cripple DL as it has chosen to staff at critical levels.
DL management needs a negotiated settlement. They need a piece of paper in hand with fixed costs they can bank on for the duration of the contract, most likely being the next four years. The creditors demand it.
WT has asserted that a gun is to ALPA's head. The truth is both sides have their finger on the trigger and both sides are capable of ending it all. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. That is somehthing any prudent DL employee should have been doing for the past four years.

 

[robbedagain]

I honestly dont think the pilots will strike. but I could be wrong. however, my best goes to all the employees of Delta.

 

[magsau]

Delta will be around. It will just depend on whether it is as Delta Airlines or as a merged entity. Will DL be a smaller carrier than it is now? My bets are it still has a great deal of work to be done in BK than WT likes to believe. The pilots are the easy targets as they are the highest earners and everybody likes to kick a pilot when they get a chance. The real test for DL will be can it come up with a business plan as a solo entity that can profit in the market? Giving up DFW to AA and scaling back CVG to a ghost town leads me to believe DL is still working with too many hubs for the needs of the airline. I would be surprised if SLC does not fall and CVG goes away all together. Combine the new DL with JFK, ATL and decent Fl coverage to one of the better network carriers and you would have a formidable airline.

However, i think the merger that will really take place is the merger of WT and USA320. These two would make a UNIQUE CORPORATE TRANSACTION group. Together they could feed the fires of lunacy.

 

[boeing787]

Just what I like mutually assured destruction. Either way DAL pilots...good luck.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

As a DL pilot this is strictly my opinion.
There will some kind of negotiated settlement in the 12th hour. If there is not, and the company attempts to impose its proposal, there will be a strike for the first time in DL's history. It would most likely lead to Ch 7. for DL. I do not think a court will grant an injunction, and even if they did, a mass exodus would occurr. Any exodus will cripple DL as it has chosen to staff at critical levels.
DL management needs a negotiated settlement. They need a piece of paper in hand with fixed costs they can bank on for the duration of the contract, most likely being the next four years. The creditors demand it.
WT has asserted that a gun is to ALPA's head. The truth is both sides have their finger on the trigger and both sides are capable of ending it all. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. That is somehthing any prudent DL employee should have been doing for the past four years.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

luv2fly,

I AGREE with you 100% !!!!!!!!!

As a "DL" "PILOT" your opinion carries EVEN more Credibility.

I've done EVERYTHING humanly possible to get "WT" to tell us what will DL DO, if It does NOT get $325M from Dalpa.

As you can see, he REFUSES to answer me !!!!!!!!!

I honestly could see a negotiated settlement with(hypothetically) Dalpa saying to DL, at the "11th hour, something along the lines like;
"OK you won't move off of the $300M, but we'll move off of our "150M" offer to $225M(splitting the difference), BUT look for the "Difference"($75M) from "other sources"(namely the non-union folks).

IF this scenario were to happen, and "Grinchstein" REFUSES, then ATL/DELTA AIR LINES would deserve every NEGATIVE thing they deserve.(Like a STRIKE= CH-7) !!!!!!

NH/BB's


DALPA should "NOT" have to take a "DOUBLE ($$$) HIT" because LEO MULLIN F*CKED UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Keeping FIRMLY in mind that "good ol' JERRY" was sitting right alongside LEO, while all this was going down)

NH/BB's

 

[WorldTraveler]

mags,
DL was overhubbed so losing DFW was hardly a great loss. And the best part of pulling out of DFW is that DL opened the opportunity for the Wright Amendment to be debated, with AA facing more and more competition from WN. DL's DFW pull down made alot of sense for DL and competitively opened the door for AA to get hammered. You do realize that DL released it's unused gates to the DFW airport port the day it pulled down the schedule?
As for CVG, it is still a very viable hub. You do realize that DL provides nonstop service to 5 European cities and Hawaii? UA doesn't have any European from DEN, now does it. And come to think of it, DL just might serve as many cities to Europe from it's "tiny" CVG hub than UA serves from all of its gateways to Europe put together. How many cities does UA serve in Europe with its own aircraft? And we'll not talk about how UA has completely thrown away its Pan Am acquisition to S. America. DL is now the 2nd largest airline to S. America and passed UA up to the whole Latin region a year ago even before DL embarked on the latest expansion. And DL uses everyone of its allocated frequencies to S. America unlike UA which pulls down 1/4 of its deep S. America flights during the US summer. Doesn't sound like network leadership to me. UA excels in just one area of the globe. And like AA, your European network is more than 1/2 tied up at London, a city where facing true competition from other US carriers is blocked. And I guess you conveniently forget that UA had a hub in MIA competing against AA and pulled it down. In fact, UA is the only US airline that has acquired complete, intact route systems from other airlines in two regions of the world but is the dominant carrier in just one. AA has maintained its dominance in Latin America and DL in Europe (without acquired access to London from DL's top markets) but UA managed to allow CO and DL, not one but two non-incumbent carriers, to pass them to Latin America and UA still loses money to Latin America. Without a doubt, UA has been the poorest custodian of the US' valuable international air rights.

NHBB,
you are extraordinarily obtuse if you don't realize that in negotiations in which something like the pension termination is at stake, DL and ALPA can value the contract very differently and still be both right. Unlike pay rates, work rule changes and pension plan changes are very subjective. While I don't think DL is ready to walk away from their original request, as I understand it they were asking just 5% more in salary cuts over the the interim agreement. I could easily see DL and ALPA agreeing not to cut pay rates any further or by lowfat milk percentages in exchange for work rule changes. Because there is alot of subjectivity involved in valuing future contributions, DL and ALPA could both "win" without forcing the meltdown that everyone seems to think is going to happen and you seem to stay up nights wishing will happen. Your endless pro-union rantings render you unable to see labor negotiations as possibly having win-win outcomes. But then what do you expect on a discussion board that is used primarily by airline employees, most of whom have no concept about how to manage anything. Go outside and play, now, NHBB. Spring is lovely in New England.

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

So United doesn't fly to Europe out of DEN. BIG DEAL! Let's see, how many international hubs does United have? LAX, SFO, ORD, IAD, SEA. How many does Delta have?

And why doesn't United concentrate on Europe? With the code share partners, it's not financially responsible to throw away good $$$ when the real JEWEL that every other airline wants tremendously is where United has decided to concentrate and build....ASIA!

Delta has zero destinations that aren't covered by everyone else. They are basically a worthless, over-capacity airline.

Delta has nothing to make them worthy to the creditors to keep throwing money at. The creditors are the only source of money, so they better not get too ticked off at all the work stoppage talks or they may just pull the plug.

 

[WorldTraveler]

So United doesn't fly to Europe out of DEN. BIG DEAL! Let's see, how many international hubs does United have? LAX, SFO, ORD, IAD, SEA. How many does Delta have?

And why doesn't United concentrate on Europe? With the code share partners, it's not financially responsible to throw away good $$$ when the real JEWEL that every other airline wants tremendously is where United has decided to concentrate and build....ASIA!

Delta has zero destinations that aren't covered by everyone else. They are basically a worthless, over-capacity airline.

Delta has nothing to make them worthy to the creditors to keep throwing money at. The creditors are the only source of money, so they better not get too ticked off at all the work stoppage talks or they may just pull the plug.

SEA a hub? please. Tell that to the thousands of UA employees who used to work there. And if IAD is such a great hub then how is that UA can't manage to fly from there to its largest international region yet other Asian airlines can? huh?

codeshare partner? why would any rational business turn over a market to its competitors if they can serve it themselves. newsflash: DL has the largest European airline as its partner along with a couple others but still manages to operate a large and expansive route system on its own. In fact, DL is the largest transatlantic carrier to Italy despite having an Italian partner there.

You do realize that both UA and NW have lost significant amounts of money on its Asian route services this decade, don't you. If those routes are so valuable, then UA is very poorly managing them since they have yet to be profitable for the decade so far. You also realize that more than 85% of the US presence in Asia is by the two carriers that were given routes by the US government when the region first opened or bought them from the carrier that premiered that service. Asia is not a market that any non-incumbent carrier has broken into on a large scale. And if Latin America is so invaluable, then why did UA spend the money on it? Huh?

And tell me how UA has managed to allow American Airlines to grow to have almost half of the market in UA's hometown? No other airline has such a low percentage of the local market in its hometown.

You obviously are incredibly ignorant if you think DL has no unique destinations. Do you have any idea where Nice, France is (clue it's one of DL's most profitable cities). How about Istanbul, Athens, and Venice, just a few of the cities DL serves on the Mediterranean Sea, you know the place where modern, western civilization was born and on whose shores DL serves over a half dozen cities but where no UA airplanes fly? How about Moscow (no it's not in the Soviet Union but it is one of the most profitable cities on DL's network). And how is it that DL can fly 10X week to Santiago, Chile with widebody aircraft but UA couldn't even do it daily. And let's not forget UA's successful (yeah right) history in India, part of that round the world service which was obviously more about ego than responsible management. It was about as successful as UA's service to all 50 states, obviously another ego move. How many of those states do UA or its affiliates serve. I don't suppose you'd admit that DL and its affiliates serves more cities in the US than UA but they do. Back to the globe, UA can't manage to operate any services beyond London (such as connecting India to its former ruling country) despite gaining the rights to do so from such a rich and protected market. Oh, and let's not forget DL's new service to Africa which no US carrier since Pan Am has served. DL managed to snag the route that UA's new African partner has decided to abandon even though it is widely known to have been the most valuable route on SA's network. Now how could SA have a flight into DL's headquarters be the most profitable route on SA's system and yet it originate from a hub that is nothing but overcapacity. Hint: DL has built ATL into the world's largest and most profitable hub since the history of aviation. May I suggest a visit to delta.com to familiarize yourself with DL's destinations.

Despite your feeble defenses, DL has done a far better job of building its WORLDWIDE route system than UA. In fact, so has NW, CO, AA, and US. That' pretty much every other US airline than operates across the ocean.

And as for DL's relationship with its creditors, you do realize that DL is renegotiating its debtor in possession financing just SIX months after filing, an unheard of speed in a bankruptcy of this size. How long did it take UA to refinance its DIP loan or were they ever able to?

 

[AL-PS-PI-AW]

As a US employee,I dont usually post on the other airlines forums, but I thought Id throw my two cents in here.
I have to agree with a previous poster in that I think a 12th hour deal will occur between the company and ALPA. Nor do I think the city of Atlanta will allow DL to fail.
Last year at this time everyone was writing US Airways off. Well look at US now!
To all my friends at DL, keep your chins up!! You are a great group of people and you guys are going to come through this and thrive. Best of luck to each and every one of you!