Delta is booted from Love Field

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USFlyer

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Interesting spin given DL had a hub at DFW yet closed up shop there several years ago.  DL clearly tried to win in Dallas but couldn't.
 
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swamt

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WorldTraveler said:
first of two carriers splitting the market is a duopoly, not a monopoly.

and second, yes, you are right that DL is the victim of a campaign to dominate the market.

And the DOJ absolutely did have the ability to argue that DL had a right to bid for the gates.

As the #4 carrier in Texas, there is no doubt that DL serves as a far better challenge to the established legacy carriers than even WN does.

DL competes with other legacy carriers. WN has chosen to build as much of its network as possible away from the reach of other legacy carriers.

It is no surprise that WN wants to build its int'l network at BWI, HOU and other hubs instead of in markets like ATL where it would have to compete with DL.

The majority of the routes that DL serves from Texas are directly competitive with other airlines.

What you cannot deny is that other cities in the US do not tolerate the restrictions that AA and WN have been able to construct around DFW and DAL and in those markets DL is very effective at competing against anyone that comes along.

I don't know DL's next steps in N. Texas but I can absolutely assure you that DL will ocntinue to grow in key markets in other parts of the country where competition is open to all.
Wow, you really don't get it.  SWA and AA had nothing to do with the restrictions put in place so just stop trying to put the blame on them.  As much as you would like to believe that SWA and AA had anything to do with the final outcome of the LF arrangements is completely out of touch.  Once again, you need to get a clue about the information in front of you, think about it, and then post. You look pathetic as usual...
 
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swamt

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eolesen said:
AA and WN didn't construct the barriers around DAL. Congress and the courts did. Take it up with them.
Correct.  He does not comprehend this fact...
 
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swamt

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USFlyer said:
Interesting spin given DL had a hub at DFW yet closed up shop there several years ago.  DL clearly tried to win in Dallas but couldn't.
BINGO!!!
 
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robbedagain

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wait...  DL  a victim....    Naw!   he cant grasp the fact DAL told DL to pack up n move....   on another note its been rumored that WN will start MSP   is there any truth to that   if so  any idea when?
 
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swamt

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robbedagain said:
wait...  DL  a victim....    Naw!   he cant grasp the fact DAL told DL to pack up n move....   on another note its been rumored that WN will start MSP   is there any truth to that   if so  any idea when?
I know.  Go figure.  I honestly do not know the size of Delta's reduction at DFW.  I do know it was very sizable.  Employees chose to quit rather than going thru any more rifs, lay-offs ect...  We hired many of them here at SWA during all that time frame that Delta ran from DFW.  If I am not mistaken they pulled well over 200 plus flights which is WAY more than any reduction SWA has done in it's history.  He always wants to beat the dead horse on SWA reducing flts at ATL, but it in no way shape or form compares to the sizable reduction Delta did at DFW.  Not trying to defend Delta at all, but I must say it was pretty shitty to only give them 2 weeks notice that they are out of LF.  And it is still not the COD's fault, I still put the blame on United.  And it very well may have been a late move in order to get rid of Delta for comp reasons, but pretty sure United will never admit that...
 

jimntx

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DFW was a large, full-function hub for DL when I started with AA in 2000.  They had all of Terminal E which has something like 38 gates, plus a satellite terminal that handled their rj flights.  At the time, all other airlines besides AA and DL were in Terminal B.  AA had all of Terminal A (which was predominately International flights at that time) and all of Terminal C for domestic flights.  Terminal D, the current International Terminal, had not been built yet.
 
So, based on gate space alone, DL was at least as half as large as AA in DFW at the time.  DL closed up shop from a hub perspective shortly after 9/11 when everyone was cutting flights in order to survive.  I am fairly sure it was over 200 flights/day that they cut.  The elimination of DFW as a hub was done almost overnight.  I have a friend who was a DFW-based DL f/a at the time.  She was given almost no notice that she would be furloughed.
 
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swamt

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jimntx said:
DFW was a large, full-function hub for DL when I started with AA in 2000.  They had all of Terminal E which has something like 38 gates, plus a satellite terminal that handled their rj flights.  At the time, all other airlines besides AA and DL were in Terminal B.  AA had all of Terminal A (which was predominately International flights at that time) and all of Terminal C for domestic flights.  Terminal D, the current International Terminal, had not been built yet.
 
So, based on gate space alone, DL was at least as half as large as AA in DFW at the time.  DL closed up shop from a hub perspective shortly after 9/11 when everyone was cutting flights in order to survive.  I am fairly sure it was over 200 flights/day that they cut.  The elimination of DFW as a hub was done almost overnight.  I have a friend who was a DFW-based DL f/a at the time.  She was given almost no notice that she would be furloughed.
Thx for that update.  Jim I remember 220 or 240 flights that Delta cut, am I wrong?
I too had a buddy that quit after 17-18 years to stay in the area (he didn't want to go to ATL)  He too had short time to give answer to company... 
 

jimntx

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swamt said:
Thx for that update.  Jim I remember 220 or 240 flights that Delta cut, am I wrong?
I too had a buddy that quit after 17-18 years to stay in the area (he didn't want to go to ATL)  He too had short time to give answer to company... 
I need to correct a misstatement on my part.  I "remembered" that the hub was closed "shortly after 9/11."  Sad when they get old, my memory is faulty.  According to Wikipedia, the DL hub was closed in 2004 resulting in a reduction of approx. 250 flights/day.  Now, that I think about it, it was probably one of the reasons I got recalled from furlough in Nov. 2004.   :lol:
 

robbedagain

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thanx for the info swamt and jim.   that's pretty dam sad that airline did not give hardly any notice.  nowonder some quit etc   cant blame them  
 

eolesen

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Back in the Winter 2000 schedule, DL had ~220 flights a day at DFW, and ~135 of them were mainline.

Flight levels stayed the same thru 2002.

Summer 2003 and Winter 2004, the hub was at ~280 departures, with ~70 of them mainline.
 

WorldTraveler

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I know.  Go figure.  I honestly do not know the size of Delta's reduction at DFW.  I do know it was very sizable.  Employees chose to quit rather than going thru any more rifs, lay-offs ect...  We hired many of them here at SWA during all that time frame that Delta ran from DFW.  If I am not mistaken they pulled well over 200 plus flights which is WAY more than any reduction SWA has done in it's history.  He always wants to beat the dead horse on SWA reducing flts at ATL, but it in no way shape or form compares to the sizable reduction Delta did at DFW.  Not trying to defend Delta at all, but I must say it was pretty shitty to only give them 2 weeks notice that they are out of LF.  And it is still not the COD's fault, I still put the blame on United.  And it very well may have been a late move in order to get rid of Delta for comp reasons, but pretty sure United will never admit that...
 
and WN has never added as many flights in one day as DL has added. Since when did WN 60 flights/day to one city and another 60 a couple months later? that is exactly what they did at LGA after the slot deal was finally approved.
I have never said the city of Dallas is responsible for DL's departure on short notice.

UA made the choice to add flights because they knew it would push DL out.

DL has said they continue to seek a solution - which is precisely what they have done every step of the way and why they aren't suing anyone but I can assure you that DL will add more than enough flights in key UA markets to more than offset the impact that UA will gain by being the only legacy carrier at DAL

DFW was a large, full-function hub for DL when I started with AA in 2000.  They had all of Terminal E which has something like 38 gates, plus a satellite terminal that handled their rj flights.  At the time, all other airlines besides AA and DL were in Terminal B.  AA had all of Terminal A (which was predominately International flights at that time) and all of Terminal C for domestic flights.  Terminal D, the current International Terminal, had not been built yet.
 
So, based on gate space alone, DL was at least as half as large as AA in DFW at the time.  DL closed up shop from a hub perspective shortly after 9/11 when everyone was cutting flights in order to survive.  I am fairly sure it was over 200 flights/day that they cut.  The elimination of DFW as a hub was done almost overnight.  I have a friend who was a DFW-based DL f/a at the time.  She was given almost no notice that she would be furloughed.
and the size of the terminals each carrier had means nothing to the size the carrier was.

and no, no one was given almost no notice that she would be furloughed. You of all people know that there are 90 day notice requirements that have to be followed. Even if an employee was furloughed, they were still paid.

Again, if you have no clue what 9/11 did to the industry and the enormous financial impact it created, you really no business commenting on it.


CO, in fact furloughed employees very soon after 9/11. DL started the process but most of the furloughs took place much later and was one of the last of the legacies to start the furlough process.

You need to go read the annual SEC filings to get the facts straight before you make comments that are clearly not accurate.
 
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