Delta loads new DAL flights
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
- Start date
- Status
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 21,709
- Reaction score
- 10,662
and you have failed to grasp that the DOJ just like any part of the US gov't is not above the law or free from challenges.
Since it is now apparent that WN won't get the gates, would you like to make a bet as to how long it will take before the WA and the restrictions on each of the carriers at the two airports fall?
I'm betting five years max - two years with a 60% chance.
Since it is now apparent that WN won't get the gates, would you like to make a bet as to how long it will take before the WA and the restrictions on each of the carriers at the two airports fall?
I'm betting five years max - two years with a 60% chance.
Delta "will win in N. Texas just as they have in ATL and NYC against AA and WN." Wow. Absolutely timeless. I'm nearly speecheless. I'll make sure to add that one to the time capsule along with Delta depressing yields across the Pacific to put JAL out of business, etc. I will definitely want to remember this gem years from now.
"Winning." Paging Charlie Sheen. I'm sure AA and Southwest are really mortified of all the "market based plans for growth" Delta has up their sleeve. You honestly couldn't make this stuff up!
"Winning." Paging Charlie Sheen. I'm sure AA and Southwest are really mortified of all the "market based plans for growth" Delta has up their sleeve. You honestly couldn't make this stuff up!
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 21,709
- Reaction score
- 10,662
You should be speechless.
AA's share of NYC (all 3 major airports) in the past six years since DL emerged from BK has fallen from above 20% to under 14% while DL's share has increased to over 25%, up 10 points in just 6 years. NYC is the largest market in the US and DL has handedly won hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue from AA in AA's former hometown.
DL has managed to be profitable across the Pacific on a year round basis. AA should be so lucky but instead lose hundreds of millions of dollars in the region per year.
The transpac market is largely open skies... DL can price how it wants to in order to make money.
As for ATL, DL's share of the LOCAL ATL market - we're not even talking about all that flow capacity that has been removed, swamt, has gone up by 4 points, almost identical to the share the combined FL/WN has lost since the merger.
Yes, DL has a very strong track record of winning in the market and you can bet your backside that DL isn't content to leave N. Texas the way it now serves it.
AA's share of NYC (all 3 major airports) in the past six years since DL emerged from BK has fallen from above 20% to under 14% while DL's share has increased to over 25%, up 10 points in just 6 years. NYC is the largest market in the US and DL has handedly won hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue from AA in AA's former hometown.
DL has managed to be profitable across the Pacific on a year round basis. AA should be so lucky but instead lose hundreds of millions of dollars in the region per year.
The transpac market is largely open skies... DL can price how it wants to in order to make money.
As for ATL, DL's share of the LOCAL ATL market - we're not even talking about all that flow capacity that has been removed, swamt, has gone up by 4 points, almost identical to the share the combined FL/WN has lost since the merger.
Yes, DL has a very strong track record of winning in the market and you can bet your backside that DL isn't content to leave N. Texas the way it now serves it.
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to ... suffering."
Delta "will win in N. Texas just as they have in ATL and NYC against AA and WN." I just think that statement bears repeating - lest anyone forget it when it's inevitably walked back and restated (recanted) in the years to come. Simply breathtaking.
Delta "will win in N. Texas just as they have in ATL and NYC against AA and WN." I just think that statement bears repeating - lest anyone forget it when it's inevitably walked back and restated (recanted) in the years to come. Simply breathtaking.
I have never stated or said anything about the DOJ above or not above the law, therefore there is nothing for me to grasp, nice try.
Why do you say it is apparent that SWA will not get the gates. As far as I know only DAL has been mentioned by the DOJ, not SWA. However, I will stay with my original thought that VX is more than likely the one to get the 2 gates. But it is still, now, between VX and SWA, DAL is out of the picture at LF as far as these 2 gates are concerned. I predict VX will get the gates, then I predict a huge air fare war in the future at LF. At which time DAL will have to leave LF and will not be able to compete in said fare wars.
Sorry your airline won't be able to make the cut. You were hoping for your airline as I was for mine. But, at least I can see when a more reasonable bidder comes along and admit they will be a stand up competitor for the gates, and VX just seems to meet all those requirements. Plus VX will bring in more passengers than DAL for the other incomes generated by passengers at airports. I honestly think the only reason SWA will not get the gates (if VX wins) is because of the 80% of gates currently being held by SWA.
I also never said that DL would not challenge the DOJ's requirements or anything about the W/A. What I did say about that is that Delta can fight it all they want, but they will be just throwing their money out the window.
BTW, now Delta has to cancel all the flights they sold to try and leverage their way into LF. All those customers will now move over to SWA and the other airline that wins the bid for the gates, more than likely VX...
Why do you say it is apparent that SWA will not get the gates. As far as I know only DAL has been mentioned by the DOJ, not SWA. However, I will stay with my original thought that VX is more than likely the one to get the 2 gates. But it is still, now, between VX and SWA, DAL is out of the picture at LF as far as these 2 gates are concerned. I predict VX will get the gates, then I predict a huge air fare war in the future at LF. At which time DAL will have to leave LF and will not be able to compete in said fare wars.
Sorry your airline won't be able to make the cut. You were hoping for your airline as I was for mine. But, at least I can see when a more reasonable bidder comes along and admit they will be a stand up competitor for the gates, and VX just seems to meet all those requirements. Plus VX will bring in more passengers than DAL for the other incomes generated by passengers at airports. I honestly think the only reason SWA will not get the gates (if VX wins) is because of the 80% of gates currently being held by SWA.
I also never said that DL would not challenge the DOJ's requirements or anything about the W/A. What I did say about that is that Delta can fight it all they want, but they will be just throwing their money out the window.
BTW, now Delta has to cancel all the flights they sold to try and leverage their way into LF. All those customers will now move over to SWA and the other airline that wins the bid for the gates, more than likely VX...
AdAstraPerAspera
Veteran
WT, what you fail to grasp (LOL) is, as you just said, New York City is the largest market-- AA doesn't need to be the market share leader to be profitable. Indeed, nor do they have to be the marketshare leader to make their competitors' marketshare unprofitable.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 21,709
- Reaction score
- 10,662
are you truly out of your mind?
You honestly consider it acceptable to give up 6 points of market share in the largest travel market for US carriers?
If DL can be profitable and AA cannot, then there is something seriously wrong with AA. And if DL can generate nearly $3B in profits in 2013 with expectations for the number to grow in 2014 and still lose money in NYC, then DL has some highly profitable hubs someplace that are paying the freight.
I didn't say that you, swamt, said that DL couldn't challenge the DOJ.... others have... and if I directed that to you, my apologies.
Yes, DL wants those gates and I'm still not convinced the door is shut. Even if it is, the evidence is OVERWHELMING that DL is capable of winning in markets against AA and WN. Obviously if DL can't fly from DAL, DL can't win in a market they can't serve but they can certainly continue to expand at DFW - and I fully expect them to do so.
Since neither WN or VX have announced or said they intend to fly to MSP or DTW, the chances that they will become a major player in a market which DL serves nonstop from DFW is slim.
Further, if VX leaves DFW, it only makes it that much easier for DL to grow there.
Remember, from the very beginning, the intent of this whole exercise was to reduce AA's strength in the market, not WN's which I always said would grow.
sit tight for an announcement of DL's next steps.
As for where AA was for the last six years, that is precisely why I said they were losing valuable ground that they would not regain. The divestiture process further validates that AA is not going to be near as strong as they could have been if they too had gone thru BK when other carriers did and merged with anyone other than US which has created so much overlap that the whole divestiture process became necessary.
You honestly consider it acceptable to give up 6 points of market share in the largest travel market for US carriers?
If DL can be profitable and AA cannot, then there is something seriously wrong with AA. And if DL can generate nearly $3B in profits in 2013 with expectations for the number to grow in 2014 and still lose money in NYC, then DL has some highly profitable hubs someplace that are paying the freight.
I didn't say that you, swamt, said that DL couldn't challenge the DOJ.... others have... and if I directed that to you, my apologies.
Yes, DL wants those gates and I'm still not convinced the door is shut. Even if it is, the evidence is OVERWHELMING that DL is capable of winning in markets against AA and WN. Obviously if DL can't fly from DAL, DL can't win in a market they can't serve but they can certainly continue to expand at DFW - and I fully expect them to do so.
Since neither WN or VX have announced or said they intend to fly to MSP or DTW, the chances that they will become a major player in a market which DL serves nonstop from DFW is slim.
Further, if VX leaves DFW, it only makes it that much easier for DL to grow there.
Remember, from the very beginning, the intent of this whole exercise was to reduce AA's strength in the market, not WN's which I always said would grow.
sit tight for an announcement of DL's next steps.
As for where AA was for the last six years, that is precisely why I said they were losing valuable ground that they would not regain. The divestiture process further validates that AA is not going to be near as strong as they could have been if they too had gone thru BK when other carriers did and merged with anyone other than US which has created so much overlap that the whole divestiture process became necessary.
AdAstraPerAspera
Veteran
AA seems to be doing a better job of flying to markets that actually work, as opposed to DL's darts at a map strategy (IST, etc..)
robbedagain
Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
- Messages
- 11,125
- Reaction score
- 2,676
why would delta re grow dfw after they pulled the plug on it? face it delta lost the battle for dal period end of discussion!
Put it this way, once AA is done restructuring and out of BK for say 2-3 years, they will be the most profitable once again, heck, maybe even next year, who knows. Right now DL is most profitable as AA is dealing with BK and merger cost.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 21,709
- Reaction score
- 10,662
"my favorite team is whoever is playing against DL"
No, DL is winning because it is generating the most revenue.
Feb traffic reports for all of the big 4 carriers are now out and DL led the industry in Feb traffic growth AND had the highest RASM growth of the legacy carriers. WN was 1% higher than DL but WN carried LESS traffic. OH, and swamt, WN's trips flown dropped almost 7%.
Note also that UA increased capacity by 3.5% on the Pacific but traffic went DOWN by 1%. That didn't work quite as planned.
DL's cancellations were considerably lower than AA and UA. Notably B6 cancelled 1/4 of the flights that DL cancelled. OUCH!
Further, DL's fuel price is expected to be 15 cents/gallon lower than UA, the only other carrier that bothers to disclose its fuel price in advance.
There is a reason why DL is the most profitable US airline and why the news of the cancellations had a far bigger impact on other carrier earnings. DL gave a $55M hit on earnings while AA will get back to us in a couple months? Really? Like after the debt to equity conversion?
swamt,
here is WN's traffic report
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwest-airlines-reports-february-traffic-114500365.html
DL's Latin America system grew by 20% and DL is now the #2 US airline in the region, passing UA.
No, DL is winning because it is generating the most revenue.
Feb traffic reports for all of the big 4 carriers are now out and DL led the industry in Feb traffic growth AND had the highest RASM growth of the legacy carriers. WN was 1% higher than DL but WN carried LESS traffic. OH, and swamt, WN's trips flown dropped almost 7%.
Note also that UA increased capacity by 3.5% on the Pacific but traffic went DOWN by 1%. That didn't work quite as planned.
DL's cancellations were considerably lower than AA and UA. Notably B6 cancelled 1/4 of the flights that DL cancelled. OUCH!
Further, DL's fuel price is expected to be 15 cents/gallon lower than UA, the only other carrier that bothers to disclose its fuel price in advance.
There is a reason why DL is the most profitable US airline and why the news of the cancellations had a far bigger impact on other carrier earnings. DL gave a $55M hit on earnings while AA will get back to us in a couple months? Really? Like after the debt to equity conversion?
swamt,
here is WN's traffic report
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwest-airlines-reports-february-traffic-114500365.html
DL's Latin America system grew by 20% and DL is now the #2 US airline in the region, passing UA.
robbedagain
Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
- Messages
- 11,125
- Reaction score
- 2,676
nice deflection there... this is not about the traffic report this is about dl loaded dal flights and now the govt has made it clear delta will not get the slots
Kev3188
Veteran
It's about what ever he decides the current narrative is...
- Status
