Delta pilots appear to win seniority arbitration over NW

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

(unless there is a contract(and only if there is a contract). Good points...I do not see relative seniority happening. I think there are two options. DOH or 1:1.

Personally, If I were a DL FA, I would not gamble with arbitration. (arbitrators will most likely look at some aspects used in the pilot's marriage, but not all.)

NxNW,

Could this pilots decision.............slow up, or halt..DL from obtaining their sought after SOC(single operating certificate) ??

 

[luv2fly]

..after that it is 1:1

That is not not correct. The ratio varies depending on category and in many cases is a 2:1 basis in favor of the DL pilots. In my particular case, I was placed in front of NW pilots with DOH two years prior to my own. However, my relative seniority remained within 1% of pre-merger seniority.
IMO, the award was fair as it can get. Everyone is at least a little ticked and that is the best you can hope for.

 

[luv2fly]

Who gets laid off (if anyone) when the 9"s get parked?

I think when is the more appropiate term.
Until the FAA grants a SOC all furloughs associated with that equipment type will come from the respective list. In other words, if DL parks all 9's next year, only NW pilots get furloughed. That being said, if the FAA turns around and grants the SOC, the furloughs would have to be reworked in reverse order of seniority from the new arbitrated list.
Pretty cost prohibitive is you ask me.

 

[southwind]

NxNW,

Could this pilots decision.............slow up, or halt..DL from obtaining their sought after SOC(single operating certificate) ??

Why?................ Do you want more union workers on the street ? :huh:

Give it up..................this deal is over and done with !

You could always leave the New company..................... that is, if you actually work for them ! :blink:

 

[luv2fly]

G O O D !!

As the Great Yogi Berra always said,

"IT ain't OVER till it's OVER" !!!

I see fear and ignorance are still alive and well on these boards.
In regards to the pilots. It's over. We are one list, and it isn't DOH.

 

[Kev3188]

Will NW pilots pull a USAir-East on Delta? Or will they respect the "binding" part of binding arbitration?

I doubt it. I don't see the same sort of drastic windfall that the Nicolau award seemed to give (from the East perspective).

I tend to feel the title of this thread is a little misleading.

Same here. A bit incendiary, too.

Why are you not sharing with the rest of the class? :angry:

What do you care?

Why?................ Do you want more union workers on the street ? :huh:

Give it up..................this deal is over and done with !

You could always leave the New company..................... that is, if you actually work for them ! :blink:

Just when I think you can't be any more misguided... BOOM! There you go and suprise me. Awesome.

 

[Dignity]

Hi dignity,
First let me state that on a different thread you apologized if you were
coming across a certain way, You weren't and the apology wasn't necessary, but
thank you.

I am happy to read that is the case, because honestly "words on script" minus body language and tone may sometimes appear one way and interpreted another. My questions and comments are sincere as I truly try to attempt to see both sides and perspectives(even if they may come across one sided as in D.O.H. comments)

From what I understand, of course, I believe there is always three sides to a story,
but in the Northeast case Delta (in flight f/a team) wanted a Delta to Northeast ratio
of 4.7 to 1. Talks didn't produce agreement and issues submitted to arbitration. The
result was Northeast F/A's with 20+ years and those hired after 1/1/72 were merged based on
the ratio of 4.7 to 1.
For Western, the integration team wanted a Ratio of 3.4 to 1. Again
talks did not produce agreement and issues submitted to arbitration. The outcome was integration
as follows: top 25%- Seniority was integrated by ratio rank 3.4 to 1 (actual; 3:1.3:1,4:1.3:1,4:1)
all others were integrated using DOH.
For PanAm Delta wanted a ratio of 8.4 to 1.
PanAm filed a suit against Delta claiming unfair labor practices, Related Lawsuit was dismissed.
Actual outcome was top 3,000 Delta F/A's- No change. The PanAm f/a's were integrated using a 5:1
ratio beginning at Delta seniority of 3001 until the Delta seniority number of 12,000. Below 12,00 DOH
was applied.
This information is from our Seniority Integration team's base visit.

Thank you. I was not aware of some information regarding Northeast.

 

[Dignity]

I think when is the more appropiate term.
Until the FAA grants a SOC all furloughs associated with that equipment type will come from the respective list. In other words, if DL parks all 9's next year, only NW pilots get furloughed. That being said, if the FAA turns around and grants the SOC, the furloughs would have to be reworked in reverse order of seniority from the new arbitrated list.
Pretty cost prohibitive is you ask me.

more than likely the DC-9-30 series eventually.. but I dont think the DC-9-40/50 especially the 50 series are going anywhere anytime soon. With oil prices where they are I tend to think some may reappear again from being parked in the desert. There is much to consider with a paid for aircraft with reliability as the DC9.

I wouldnt be at all surprised to see a DC9 in the new livery soon...

 

[brokenwrench]

December 8, 2008
Dear Fellow Pilot,
Late this evening, the SLI Arbitration Panel issued its Award and written opinion in support of the Award for the integration of the Delta and Northwest pre-merger seniority lists into a single integrated list. The Award is constructed on the foundation of a “ratioed status and category†methodology with a rational treatment for the minor attrition differences that exist between the two pilot groups. The Award and written opinion are now posted and available for download on the Delta MEC website at http://www.deltapilots.org.
The Award is effective immediately and will be presented to Delta as the final integrated seniority list under Section 1 D. 8. b. of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement. It will be defended and enforced by the Air Line Pilots Association as an award under ALPA Merger Policy. Under ALPA Merger Policy and the terms of the SLI Process Agreement, the Award is final and binding on the Delta MEC, the Northwest MEC and the Association.
As you may recall, the SLI Process Agreement was entered into by the Northwest MEC and the Delta MEC in June with the agreement and approval of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, to establish a process for the integration of the pilot seniority lists at Northwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines in connection with the merger of the two carriers. As permitted under ALPA Merger Policy, the Process Agreement provided an alternative, and I believe a far superior alternative, to the traditional seniority list integration process.
It was a fair and equitable process, and by extension, the resulting Award is a fair and equitable Award.
Soon, the Delta MEC Merger Committee will provide you with the first in a series of Delta Merger Committee Updates designed to provide you with additional information about the SLI process, the Award methodology, the Panel’s written opinion and the Conditions and Restrictions (including what are commonly referred to as “fencesâ€) that are a part of the Award.
Over the past three years, the Delta pilots have successfully navigated through a career- altering bankruptcy while retaining our work rules and other crucial features of our collective bargaining agreement. We have played a key role in defeating the hostile takeover of Delta by US Airways, and stood up to a self-proclaimed renegade hedge fund that tried to forcefully commandeer Delta’s future for its own short-term financial gain. In short, we had made ourselves relevant in an industry where labor concerns are often an afterthought.
We then continued to assert that relevance by doing what had never been done before in any airline merger—participating at the front end of the merger between Delta and Northwest not only as pilot labor, but as active stakeholders. We supported the merger because, unlike recent past attempts, the merger between Delta and Northwest was the “right†merger; a merger that involved the pilots from the earliest formative stages of the process, that provides meaningful protections and added value for our participation as stakeholders in the process, and that most importantly has already begun to produce an even stronger and growing airline that will vigorously and successfully compete in the domestic and international marketplace.
The merger has closed, and the Delta pilot group is now the largest pilot group in the world operating under one collective bargaining agreement and integrated under a single seniority list. The corporation will continue to focus on the operational merging of the two airlines which will not be complete until the FAA issues a Single Operating Certificate. For our part, the next step in the integration process will be the orderly merger of the two MECs and the transition to a single MEC administration. It is our goal that this transition will occur in a smooth and timely fashion early in the New Year.
Following that, our history will continue to be ours to write. We must continue to pilot our way to every opportunity, a goal that can only be achieved with the unity, resolve and relentless determination made possible by the 12,434 pilots of Delta Air Lines.
.
Fraternally,
Lee Moak, Chairman
Delta MEC

Say what you will about pilots but it is hard to argue that Moak has not been an effective leader for this pilot group.

I wish them and all the employees of Delta good luck in the future.

 

[luv2fly]

I wouldnt be at all surprised to see a DC9 in the new livery soon...

I don't disagree that you'll see them in DL livery. Testimony during the arbitration leads me to believe they will all be gone by 2012.

 

[Dignity]

Testimony during the arbitration leads me to believe they will all be gone by 2012.

probably the 30 series by 2012 or sooner, but the 50 series, I dont know! maybe a little longer..

the fleet certainly needs to be simplified..especially if some of those 787 orders are being converted to 777...and that probably means a phased out 747 eventually..as well within 10 years or sooner.

 

[skyflyr69]

Nice FENCES. Conditions and restrictions that are quite fair. Had fences and conditions and restrictions be allowed in US AWA that would have been settled a long time ago.

 

[Kev3188]

(bump)

Here's the combined seniority list. I found it in a thread over on A.Net....



http://aviationweek.com/media/pdf/Seniorit...Final081208.pdf

 

[dapoes]

(bump)

Here's the combined seniority list. I found it in a thread over on A.Net....



http://aviationweek.com/media/pdf/Seniorit...Final081208.pdf

It doesn't look to bad no? Some gained a few % points, some lost a few.

 

[jalbalpa]

It doesn't look to bad no? Some gained a few % points, some lost a few.

The average Delta pilot lost 0.5% to 1.2%, some losing as much as over 2%. Not too bad...but certainly not in favor of DL pilots.

If DL flight attendants would go with DOH on average they will gain 0.5% to 1.5%, with gains as high as 2.5%, and in some rare cases a loss of 1%.