Delta won't die after all

[LGA Fleet Service]

Gawd Damn it...Is it necessary to quote the entire previous post to add a one word comment?

 

[WorldTraveler]

welcome, Bimbels.

Greeter has posted the most factual post here. Sadly, airlines each other and airline employees each other as well.

I think we've all made our points on the pilot compensation issue and little else is to be gained form continuing to harp on points that have been made time and time again with the same result and the same people believing the same things they've always believed.

It is now time to support each other and make the companies we care about survive and thrive. Let's also recognize that the real threat to the airline industry is the new breed of airlines that are attempting to undermine the existence of the traditional or legacy airlines. Given that none of the legacy airlines has significantly differentiated themselves to the point that they either look or plan to be significantly different from each other, how about focusing attention on restoring health to the proud old airlines and prove that this industry is capable of profitably remaking itself?

Oh, and peace on earth, good will to all people too.

 

[Bimbels]

It is now time to support each other and make the companies we care about survive and thrive. Let's also recognize that the real threat to the airline industry is the new breed of airlines that are attempting to undermine the existence of the traditional or legacy airlines. Given that none of the legacy airlines has significantly differentiated themselves to the point that they either look or plan to be significantly different from each other, how about focusing attention on restoring health to the proud old airlines and prove that this industry is capable of profitably remaking itself?

I agree with you 100% that "now is the time to support each other." I guess my point was, the selfish statement "we pilots are suffering the most" is not really the type of support one would hope for.

Your schpeel re: the real threat to this industry is not news. I was in no way insinuating that PILOTS are the real threat in my post, if that's what you think. Otherwise I don't know why you felt the need to "enlighten" me.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, other than travel the world, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that RESTORING HEALTH to this proud old airline is not in my control. Us front line employees are doing the same thing we've always done - treat our customers as best we can with what we are given (which ain't a whole lot these days.) And that's despite being beaten down over and over and over again by this company - no matter the reasons. That's all we can do. The rest - like showing all these cuts can generate a profit - is in the hands of management.

 

[WorldTraveler]

My post was not directed entirely at you, Bimbels. Only the greeting. The rest of the post is a general post to lots of people.

Actually, you do have a great deal of influence on the state of Delta. The company may have cut your pay but you alone have control over your attitude. Airlines are service businesses and the best way to convince the public that DL's bankruptcy is a business matter and shouldn't affect them is for DL employees to give the outstanding service which I have long appreciated. Other airline's employees have managed to suck it up and make it work in spite of the tough environment; it's now Delta's time to do it. Hopefully there will be more and more customers that tell you that you are appreciated and commend you when you do a good job.

 

[Bimbels]

My post was not directed entirely at you, Bimbels. Only the greeting. The rest of the post is a general post to lots of people.

Actually, you do have a great deal of influence on the state of Delta. The company may have cut your pay but you alone have control over your attitude. Airlines are service businesses and the best way to convince the public that DL's bankruptcy is a business matter and shouldn't affect them is for DL employees to give the outstanding service which I have long appreciated. Other airline's employees have managed to suck it up and make it work in spite of the tough environment; it's now Delta's time to do it. Hopefully there will be more and more customers that tell you that you are appreciated and commend you when you do a good job.

Forgive my misunderstanding re: who your post was directed towards.

Our attitudes are the only area we have any influence over, and as far as I can see (my only contact is with Flight attendants, Pilots, and Gate Agents - so basically most public contact employee groups) the attitudes of the majority of employees have been outstanding. I think it's safe to say that for the most part, those whose attitudes are poor have always had them, regardless of what's going on now. I'm proud to say that my fellow employees have held their heads high even with all that's going on around us.

But despite that, we are where we are. It's very frustrating to see that despite the positive attitude, despite the successive cuts in pay and other compensation, despite the fact that every flight I work is full, we STILL are bleeding cash at an alarming rate. So I'm sure you can imagine how helpless we front liners feel. Which is why I say at this point, its really in the hands of management.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Thank you for affirming what I believed to be true - that BK is really not any more of a distraction to the service DL employees give than any of the million other distractions that airline employees have to deal with.

That being said, I do hope that DL's leadership will turn a decidedly more positive outlook to DL employees given that the worst of the pilot squabble is probably behind both parties.

I read some encouraging comments from your president (Whitehurst) in the Wall St. Journal to the Wings club. Despite the endless parade of DL bashers on this board, DL has accomplished more in its 3 months of BK (it has now been 3 months if you're celebrating such milestones) than other airlines have accomplished in several years.

And DL has an extraordinary heritage and group of employees. I long recognized that to be true but was convinced almost 25 years ago when I flew the Spirit of Delta from DFW to Boston for the first time.

Regardless of how badly some would like DL to fail, I am convinced that DL will recover with more strength than they have ever had - and they were considered one of the best run airlines in the business for decades. It's time to restore the streak.

 

[MMB]

> As NON union, after the company gets "stonewalled" by
> DALPA(who is UNION), they don't think twice about going
> after you guys
> BECAUSE...............................?????????

And you think that is a good thing?
The maintenance department in Boston is currently 20 men understaffed and is loosing another 3 to 4 a month. With the current pay scale and local cost of living, no-one will transfer in. The result is they are hiring anybody they can get off the street.
You may laugh now at being able to keep your pay scales higher at the cost of others, but the cost to you will eventually be to have to fly an aircraft certified by a lawnmower mechanic.

MB

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

And you think that makes unions a GOOD thing?? Let's all join so that NOBODY will take paycuts and we will ask the company to support unreasonably high wages for ALL during a severe downturn in the industry. Makes sense to me!!! Sign me up!!!!! I'm all for only the good and never the bad. That will keep all companies in business for a LONG time (like 3 days).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well ch. 12,

NEVER mind what I think, just look at The BIG WIGS in ATL. They must have thought that the UNIONS PLAN was a good thing, SINCE THEY AGREED TO IT !!!!!!!!!!


???????????

NH/BB's


Addressed to........Bimbels and Ch. 12.

PERHAPS your pay and working conditions, that your "pointing out" to us here, MAY be more "bearable" now, if your respective workgroups had voted YES to union representation the few times you've had the chance, over these past years ?????????


NH/BB's

 

[deltawatch]

DAL pilots were some of the best compensated in the world only a few years ago, even months ago really. I for one hope they somehow stay that way, and are able to keep at least the pension they have earned...otherwise the rest of us, and not just in the airline industry, have nowhere else to go, especially if they lower the bar. Rambling a little..Greeter.

A quarter of Deltas' mainline jobs belonged to US Airways in the 90's. Delta hored out flying to under paid Comair pilots until they stole enough US Air passengers out of key east coast cities and then converted some of it to mainline while US Air was forced to layoff and park more big jets. Things have gotten tuffer since the Comair pilots made a stand for slightly higher wages a couple of years ago. Deltas' plan for reducing capacity in the industry was to put all US Air employees on the street and it failed, plan B ain't going to feel good, ask anyone at US Airways.

 

[luv2fly]

But they are making money. An unfair comparison and you know it...

Those rates are facts. Hardly an unfair comparison, unless you consider comparing facts unfair.

 

[Vikedog64]

Those rates are facts. Hardly an unfair comparison, unless you consider comparing facts unfair.

What I am saying is that as long as a company makes money, the employees usually make more. Alot of pilots seem to be hung up on the fact that with the new rates at DAL, pilots, especially on the narrowbodies will be making LCC wages. If it makes you feel any better, we, as a F/A group are getting there also. If LCC's are making money, their employees should make more.

 

[Ch. 12]

Well ch. 12,

NEVER mind what I think, just look at The BIG WIGS in ATL. They must have thought that the UNIONS PLAN was a good thing, SINCE THEY AGREED TO IT !!!!!!!!!!
???????????

Everybody agreed to it during better financial times. You know that.

Addressed to........Bimbels and Ch. 12.

PERHAPS your pay and working conditions, that your "pointing out" to us here, MAY be more "bearable" now, if your respective workgroups had voted YES to union representation the few times you've had the chance, over these past years ?????????
NH/BB's

What am I complaining about?? My pay and working conditions match what the market can bear. I would actually complain (though probably quietly) if my wages were double what they are b/c I have the forsense to know that such rates would cripple and potentially dismantle my company and my job. THAT is what I'm trying to get through to you...unions weren't created as a mechanism to support continuously increasing wages despite the economic environment. I doubt that unions would seek out maintaining or increasing pay during the great depression. Why ask for this now during the "great airline industry depression"?? Because they have evolved into businesses that only look to make a profit for the union leadership and therefore the choices they make are not based on what a company/industry can sustain. My current wages/conditions ARE based on what the market will bear. I can't rah, rah with you there, my friend. You haven't come close to recruiting me. Good luck in your future recruiting attempts.

-chapter 12

 

[abe]

A quarter of Deltas' mainline jobs belonged to US Airways in the 90's. Delta hored out flying to under paid Comair pilots until they stole enough US Air passengers out of key east coast cities and then converted some of it to mainline while US Air was forced to layoff and park more big jets. Things have gotten tuffer since the Comair pilots made a stand for slightly higher wages a couple of years ago. Deltas' plan for reducing capacity in the industry was to put all US Air employees on the street and it failed, plan B ain't going to feel good, ask anyone at US Airways.

I'm not sure where you get this info, but it's wrong. I can think of one city on the east coast that started out with regional service and then switched to mainline (MHT)....I know there are several that went the other direction (mainline to regional).

Delta was in those "key east coast cities" all along with mainline service.

Abe

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Everybody agreed to it during better financial times. You know that.
What am I complaining about?? My pay and working conditions match what the market can bear. I would actually complain (though probably quietly) if my wages were double what they are b/c I have the forsense to know that such rates would cripple and potentially dismantle my company and my job. THAT is what I'm trying to get through to you...unions weren't created as a mechanism to support continuously increasing wages despite the economic environment. I doubt that unions would seek out maintaining or increasing pay during the great depression. Why ask for this now during the "great airline industry depression"?? Because they have evolved into businesses that only look to make a profit for the union leadership and therefore the choices they make are not based on what a company/industry can sustain. My current wages/conditions ARE based on what the market will bear. I can't rah, rah with you there, my friend. You haven't come close to recruiting me. Good luck in your future recruiting attempts.

-chapter 12

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Brother,
I'm Not trying to recruit you !!
I'm just SIMPLY pointing out, that you would be $$$ in a better position now, during these tough times.

I'm just SIMPLY pointing out that As DALPA "backs down" DL, that DL will make up the difference of the $325 Million, that they DID'NT get from DALPA, out of YOU !!!


NH/BB's

 

[WorldTraveler]

abe,
two airlines have had a great influence on DL's expansion on the east coast: the demise of Eastern and the retrenchment of USAirways. Yes, DL developed several cities on its own such as MHT which became attractive markets because WN served them and they generated lots of traffic, which fit the old DL philosophy. Unfortunately, carrying lots of connecting passengers at low fares didn't make money and so DL is now pulling back from that strategy. Not sure what MHT's new schedule is but alot cities will have much less capacity to hubs. However, many of those same cities are also gaining nonstop service to several Florida cities and to New York, which is a key destination DL continues to develop. US's demise was that DL's hub outgunned US's while DL also overflew many few US cities to key markets with regional jets, something US just didn't have. And despite alot of people's contentions that DL has too many RJ's, they have used them to expand their network significantly while horning into others. On that basis, it's hard to argue they have too many.