DL and VS swap flights

[700UW]

Virgin Atlantic plans to take over DELTA's Manchester - Atlanta route while DELTA takes over Virgin's 1 of 2 daily London Heathrow - Newark
 
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you posted right before me.... the mods can delete the thread I started.


Delta and Virgin Atlantic will swap and add new service.

VS will take over ATL-MAN, a long-time DL route, DL will start JFK-MAN, VS will add a DTW-LHR flight and add flights to JFK and LAX, DL will take over one of VS' EWR routes (gives DL 3 TATL flights from EWR).

"Virgin and Delta are also adjusting services, with the British carrier operating a flight between Manchester, England, and Atlanta that was flown by its partner, with the U.S. airline taking over a London to Newark service. Delta also will serve Manchester from New York, Virgin said."

"Virgin Atlantic said it would start serving Detroit from London Heathrow, add additional flights to New York and Los Angeles, with extra seasonal flights to other markets, including Delta's Atlanta hub. The airline said it would also spend £300 million ($496.4 million) on customer-related investments."

from a WSJ article that can be viewed by googling the exact title "Virgin Atlantic to Increase Flights to U.S."

Virgin will be existing some markets in Asia.


"To focus on the lucrative trans-Atlantic market, which also underpins profits at rival British Airways, Virgin said it would stop flying to Tokyo's Narita airport early next year, close the route to Mumbai, India, and pare other services."

 

[700UW]

From London Heathrow, Virgin Atlantic plans summer seasonal 2nd daily to Atlanta and San Francisco (5 weekly) plus 2nd winter daily to Miami
 
VS is also ending flights to Vancouver, Cape Town, Mumbai and Tokyo.

 

[WorldTraveler]

good news for both DL and VS as both gain increased visibility in key markets... DL's additional flights will primarily be in NYC while VS will increase its presence with DL's help from DL's hubs and in key industry competitive markets such as LAX, JFK, MIA, and SFO.

They also note that the DL partnership has already helped VS increase its revenues, highlighting the power of US airlines to help int'l carriers who want increased access to the US market.

 

[BABABOOY]

When will these additions/swaps take place?

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL hasn't posted its start dates but VS is exiting some of its markets as early as within the next couple weeks (YVR) and thruout the winter.

seems like DL should issue a press release today.

 

[700UW]

Virgin Atlantic today (03SEP14) announced its planned network changes in 2015, which includes cancellations of 4 routes. Affected routes and effective dates (from LHR) as follow.
eff 12OCT14 London Heathrow – Vancouver VS will no longer operate this Summer seasonal service from S15
eff 01FEB15 London Heathrow – Mumbai
eff 01FEB15 London Heathrow – Tokyo Narita
eff 27APR15 London Heathrow – Cape Town VS will no longer operate this seasonal service from NW15
As part of strengthening its joint-venture operation with DELTA, Virgin Atlantic proposes following changes (frequency listed below operated by VS, excluding those operated by DL):
London Heathrow – Atlanta 2nd daily service during Summer season
London Heathrow – Detroit NEW daily service
London Heathrow – Los Angeles 2nd daily service resumption
London Heathrow – Miami 2nd daily service during Winter season
London Heathrow – Newark 1 of 2 daily service to be operated by DELTA Aircraft
London Heathrow – New York JFK NEW 5th daily service
London Heathrow – San Francisco Additional 5 weekly service during Summer season (overall to increase to 12 weekly)
Manchester – Atlanta 1 daily service, replacing current DELTA operation
All changes listed above will be gradually reflected in the GDS in the next few days or weeks.
 

 

[topDawg]

Virgin Atlantic plans to take over DELTA's Manchester - Atlanta route while DELTA takes over Virgin's 1 of 2 daily London Heathrow - Newark
 
 

this is such a load of horse crap. 
 
Delta gives up ATL-MAN. One of the ATL-LHR flights. The 2nd daily DTW-LHR flight. The LAX-LHR flight they took over ...........and all they get is EWR-LHR. 
 
Good to see Anderson is up to the same old s**t with this JV too. Now we see where the capacity is coming from to replace the 4 more 744s they are going to park. 

 

[BABABOOY]

this is such a load of horse crap. 
 
Delta gives up ATL-MAN. One of the ATL-LHR flights. The 2nd daily DTW-LHR flight. The LAX-LHR flight they took over ...........and all they get is EWR-LHR. 
 
Good to see Anderson is up to the same old s**t with this JV too. Now we see where the capacity is coming from to replace the 4 more 744s they are going to park. 

Delta JFK is getting back MAN and EWR is adding LHR.  Loosing ATL-MAN 
Delta never had flown LAX-LHR.   simmer down now    
I see Virgin is loosing CPT, BOM, NRT and Vancouver  but gaining DTW ?? 
I feel bad for them..

 

[WorldTraveler]

are we really sure that DL is giving up the LAX-LHR flight that is supposed to start at the end of October? The DL LAX-LHR flight was a previous trade for DL and VS that included VS adding an ATL-LHR flight.

VS didn't say that they were taking back over the LAX-LHR flight that DL is flying and as of right now, DL still is selling seats on its own LAX-LHR flight as far out as next summer (2015).

As such, DL is trading ATL-MAN for JFK-MAN and adding EWR-LHR, apparently at the expense of DTW-LHR, but it isn't even clear that DL is giving up one of its DTW flights.

DL operates FOUR DTW-AMS flights/day and the 2 DL operated DTW-LHR flights plus Virgin's would make 3.

The only replacements that Airline Route says are replacements between DL and VS are ATL-MAN and EWR-LHR.

Until there is more clarity or more indication, it appears that DL and VS both are increasing their own operated services between the UK and the US.

 

[topDawg]

Delta JFK is getting back MAN and EWR is adding LHR.  Loosing ATL-MAN 
Delta never had flown LAX-LHR.   simmer down now    
I see Virgin is loosing CPT, BOM, NRT and Vancouver  but gaining DTW ?? 
I feel bad for them..

 
Okay lets slow down here. 
Virgin is adding an extra daily flight on MIA, JFK, LAX and 5w to SFO. Also taking over the 2nd daily DTW flight and ATL-MAN. They are losing EWR. 
 

are we really sure that DL is giving up the LAX-LHR flight that is supposed to start at the end of October? The DL LAX-LHR flight was a previous trade for DL and VS that included VS adding an ATL-LHR flight. It was announced as winter seasonal. 

VS didn't say that they were taking back over the LAX-LHR flight that DL is flying and as of right now, DL still is selling seats on its own LAX-LHR flight as far out as next summer (2015). ​They said it was a winter shift. Now it appears virgin will operate 2 ATL flights (1 is new, one is the old Delta flight).  

As such, DL is trading ATL-MAN for JFK-MAN and adding EWR-LHR, apparently at the expense of DTW-LHR, but it isn't even clear that DL is giving up one of its DTW flights. 

DL operates FOUR DTW-AMS flights/day and the 2 DL operated DTW-LHR flights plus Virgin's would make 3. they can operate SIXTY SEVEN AMS flights, that doesn't mean anything for LHR operations. Quit with the look at this hand while i slap you with the other horse crap. 

The only replacements that Airline Route says are replacements between DL and VS are ATL-MAN and EWR-LHR.

Until there is more clarity or more indication, it appears that DL and VS both are increasing their own operated services between the UK and the US. 

For an airline that has been in constant run away mode for the Atlantic i will believe that when i see it. 
 
and I mean I want to see 2 Delta airplanes leave DTW for LHR and a Delta airplane leave LAX for LHR in the summer. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, VS is dropping 4 routes in Asia and Africa and adding 4 year round flights to the US (LHR to DTW, JFK, LAX) plus ATL-MAN.

They will operate 3 seasonal routes, with MIA being winter seasonal and ATL #2 (for them) and SFO being summer seasonal.

IN terms of block hours, I would bet they are at best flat, and maybe losing block hours on a system basis.

We haven't seen all of DL's announcements but DL has added SEA-LHR this year adding LAX-LHR later this year and appears to be adding EWR-LHR as a net gain in capacity.

Perhaps we aren't seeing the whole picture but I don't see DL giving routes to Virgin but do see that DL is a whole lot stronger to LHR than it was a few years ago. By next summer, DL will be flying its own aircraft to BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL, DTW, MSP, SEA, and LAX. When you consider that DL didn't even fly to LHR about 5 years ago, the progress is enormous.

Since DL specifically noted that the VS partnership was key to increasing its yield in NYC and across the entire TATL entity, it seems clear that DL is using the VS partnership to far better benefit than it possibly could do on its own.

 

[topDawg]

again, VS is dropping 4 routes in Asia and Africa and adding 4 year round flights to the US (LHR to DTW, JFK, LAX) plus ATL-MAN.

They will operate 3 seasonal routes, with MIA being winter seasonal and ATL #2 (for them) and SFO being summer seasonal. which counts for a year round (also most daily) flight. It might shift between MIA/SFO but it is still a year round flight. 

IN terms of block hours, I would bet they are at best flat, and maybe losing block hours on a system basis.So because they are burning money NRT that means that they should get more Delta flying so Delta employees can watch airplanes leave the fleet and continue the general stagnation of the long haul product? Its the same game with AF/KL. Delta should be matching capacity, hell your the one who always says Delta is the lower cost option....... 

We haven't seen all of DL's announcements but DL has added SEA-LHR this year adding LAX-LHR later this year and appears to be adding EWR-LHR as a net gain in capacity.LAX-LHR isn't a gain. Its a wash, it covers the lost ATL flying. EWR-LHR is a questionable gain as it seems to mean Virgin getting a DTW flight over Delta. SEA-LHR is just bringing back a flight Delta cut a few years ago. 

Perhaps we aren't seeing the whole picture but I don't see DL giving routes to Virgin but do see that DL is a whole lot stronger to LHR than it was a few years ago. By next summer, DL will be flying its own aircraft to BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL, DTW, MSP, SEA, and LAX. When you consider that DL didn't even fly to LHR about 5 years ago, the progress is enormous.Look at this hand *SLAP* All of this means next to nothing. DL (Or NW) all had JFK/ATL/DTW/MSP and at times BOS/SEA flights to London. (Some LGW some LHR) For the most part its capacity natural. 

Since DL specifically noted that the VS partnership was key to increasing its yield in NYC and across the entire TATL entity, it seems clear that DL is using the VS partnership to far better benefit than it possibly could do on its own. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

who said VS is getting flying that DL would have otherwise done. DL just added a LAX flight; we're not going to add another.

DL tried MIA-LHR.

DL isn't going to try SFO-LHR.

The total size of the DL-VS system is getting larger but there are routes that wouldn't work if DL tried them at all.

DL never flew SEA-LHR. NW did in the early stages of the AF/KL JV which does include part of DL's LHR operation (or did when the DL/AF/KL JV was amended post DL-NW merger). It was flown with an AF/KL slot and did very poorly.

DL bought its own slot for the most recent SEA-LHR flight.

sorry, but DL is a far larger airline in London today than DL/NW was at any time since 9/11.

 

[topDawg]

who said VS is getting flying that DL would have otherwise done. DL just added a LAX flight; we're not going to add another. why not? 

DL tried MIA-LHR. before the JV. They also did BOS-LGW before and it was a complete failure, means nothing now though. 

DL isn't going to try SFO-LHR.Why not? 

The total size of the DL-VS system is getting larger but there are routes that wouldn't work if DL tried them at all.

DL never flew SEA-LHR. NW did in the early stages of the AF/KL JV which does include part of DL's LHR operation (or did when the DL/AF/KL JV was amended post DL-NW merger). It was flown with an AF/KL slot and did very poorly. false. Delta owned NW when the flight was cut. It might not have operated as a DL flight but Delta pulled the plug. 

DL bought its own slot for the most recent SEA-LHR flight.

sorry, but DL is a far larger airline in London today than DL/NW was at any time since 9/11.

I don't see how Delta is "much larger" Delta has had 3 flights on ATL-LON. IIRC it had two flights on JFK-LGW and 1x CVG-LGW. they are three daily JFK and three daily ATL-LHR. CVG is gone. 
NW had a daily flight to DTW and MSP from LGW, and its been basically the same from LHR. SEA started and got cut. 
 
Basically Delta is up one or two flights to London and thats about it. 
 
Oh and JFK-MAN isn't new. I am pretty sure it was operated in 2013, so basically a route Delta cut for AF/KL is coming back.