Dot Gives United Dca-den Authority

[Cosmo]

Earlier today, DOT awarded United 2 of the 12 new DCA beyond-perimeter slot exemptions to begin DCA-DEN nonstop service with one daily round trip. This new service should start in about 90 days. United also applied for two daily DCA-SFO nonstop round trips but that application was denied. You can read the DOT order discussing the award to United and other carriers (AS 1 R/T SEA, AS 1 R/T LAX, F9 2 R/Ts DEN and HP 1 R/T PHX) here.

 

[Revolutions]

This is great news! UA should have received more. The fact that they gave alaska rights to DCA-LAX is a joke. AA or UA would have been far more appropriate.

I will definitely use this new service! Does anyone want to take a guess as to when these flights will depart/arrive?

 

[whlinder]

The fact that they gave alaska rights to DCA-LAX is a joke.

Why is it a joke to add competition on a route served by an AA/UA duopoly with a healthy airline that has a sane fare structure?

 

[Revolutions]

Its a joke because they do not have the equipment to fully utilize the slot AND they offer nothing out of LAX than they already offer out of SEA. And they have more SEA flights on top of that!

They have no feed on either end of the new service.

 

[TravelDude]

Do any carriers fly DCA-SFO-DCA?
Any guesses on why UA did not get the SFO slot?

I was surprised no round trips were awarded to SFO, UA did apply for this if I recall correctly. Yet, DEN recieved 3 new round trips (2 to Frontier, 1 to UA). Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't SFO a bigger market than DEN?

 

[whlinder]

Its a joke because they do not have the equipment to fully utilize the slot AND they offer nothing out of LAX than they already offer out of SEA. And they have more SEA flights on top of that!

They have no feed on either end of the new service.

A 737-900 has what, 10 fewer seats than a 757-200. Yes, I know, Alaska is using a 700 to start the service, but they have mentioned that they will upgrade to a 900 should the demand be sufficient.

What airline does offer something out of LAX that AS doesn't out of SEA? How many new cities would get 1-stop service to DCA if either AA or UA had gotten an LAX slot as opposed to AS? (Don't forget that HP already can serve many of these communities through LAS/PHX).

I don't think AS should have gotten a 2nd SEA slot (it should have gone to them for 2x LAX) but the reality is that having 120 fairly priced seats on a 737-700 with connections to So. Cal on AA Eagle codeshares is more benefitial to the travelling public than having 180-whatever price gouged seats on a 757 with roughly the same connecting opportunities. Not to mention that one of the major intentions of the Air-21 legislation was to open up DCA to carriers whose western route systems prevented them from ever serving DCA due to the perimeter. AS also fits that description.

And if anything, pick on HP for getting a 3rd RT DCA-PHX. Who needs another PHX slot when SFO/LAX were only given one RT? And HP won the right for that to use an A319... and they have 757s that they choose not to use.

 

[lpbrian]

NO. A 737-900 does not hold just 10 seats shy of a 757-200 (188 in 2-class is typical) Also, DCA has very short runways, and on a hot summer day I doubt a 737-900 could carry a full load all the way to the west coast. These awards are a joke, govt. regulation at its worst. Granted, AS is a great airline, but I don't think fare structure should figure in.I also find it amusing that SEA and PHX got additional flights while SFO, 3 times bigger market, got none. In the end it's all politics, pure and simple.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It's clear from these and previous slot awards that the gov't has a very definite preference for low cost carriers. Clearly they see the low fares offered as competition to the network carriers and want to do all they can to further suppress fares.

 

[Busdrvr]

UA service to LAX or SFO would have yielded one stop shopping to Australia, Korea, Japan, China, Hawaii, and Code share to New Zealand, and Singapore. Yep, the public good is served so well when political forces dictate LESS seats with LESS access. 🙄 These slots should have either been auctioned or given to the airline willing to put the largest equipment on them (757). Is the public being served by multiple FRNT A319 Whitehouse fly-overs when less traffic flown by 757's would provide more seats, and SIGNIFICANTLY better connecting ops for other communities WORLDWIDE?

 

[Cart Pusher]

NO. A 737-900 does not hold just 10 seats shy of a 757-200 (188 in 2-class is typical) Also, DCA has very short runways, and on a hot summer day I doubt a 737-900 could carry a full load all the way to the west coast. These awards are a joke, govt. regulation at its worst. Granted, AS is a great airline, but I don't think fare structure should figure in.I also find it amusing that SEA and PHX got additional flights while SFO, 3 times bigger market, got none. In the end it's all politics, pure and simple.

Alaska's 737-900's hold 172 pax in a 2 cabin config. - they fly regularly from MIA/MCO/BOS/IAD/EWR to SEA nonstop all summer long. DCA-LAX is 2311 miles (according to the great circle mapper), which is less than any of the other's mentioned above.

 

[C54Capt]

Revolutions and World Traveller,

Air 21 was designed to bring competitive fares to the market and to give carriers without access, the opportunity to compete in the DCA market. Giving all the slots to UA and AA would do neither. Alaska is a great airline with plenty of connectivity for the routes they were awarded. Frontier's planned expansion will do the same out of Denver. HP out of PHX is the obvious choice to meet the board's goal. I would have liked to see Aloha get the SNA-DCA route connecting HNL.

Busdriver, your snide "White House" comment was inappropriate and doesn't belong on this board. It has nothing to do with the the subject of slot awards. If you would like to talk about flight incidents with your airline, just pm me, I got a ton of them for you. I have been reading these boards for a couple of years and the arrogance is still alive and well with you. Get with the times like most of us have.

 

[flythewing]

Alaska's 737-900's hold 172 pax in a 2 cabin config. - they fly regularly from MIA/MCO/BOS/IAD/EWR to SEA nonstop all summer long.

MIA-SEA nonstop in a guppy? Where do I sign up........?

 

[Cart Pusher]

Alaska's 737-900's hold 172 pax in a 2 cabin config. - they fly regularly from MIA/MCO/BOS/IAD/EWR to SEA nonstop all summer long.

MIA-SEA nonstop in a guppy? Where do I sign up........?

Yeah it's so much different than flying transcon on the 319. or the 757.

 

[GuppyPup]

Alaska's 737-900's hold 172 pax in a 2 cabin config. - they fly regularly from MIA/MCO/BOS/IAD/EWR to SEA nonstop all summer long. DCA-LAX is 2311 miles (according to the great circle mapper), which is less than any of the other's mentioned above.

The useful range of an aircraft is a function of Fuel load and Payload wt. The amount of load carried is often dictated by the length of the takeoff runway.

While the mileage distance from DCA-LAX may indeed be shorter than MIA-SEA, the rwy length at DCA is "much" shorter than the rwys at the other airports you have listed.

I would expect the 739 useful load from the short DCA rwy is less for the 739 than at a place like IAD or MIA, where the rwys are 2x as long.

Cheers,
Puppy

 

[Cart Pusher]

Alaska flew the 737-900 into DCA when we first started service there.