Us Gets Screwed Yet Again

[Revolutions]

:down: This is bogus. While I am not sure US had a really good case for new service outside of the perimeter, UA and AA bring alot more to the table than Alaska does. Plus how many flights do they really need to SEA from DCA?? The O&D traffic probably doesn't fill 1/3 of the aircrraft. Plus they don't have the equipment to take full advantage of the slot.

Ditto the sentiment on LCC's. If all airlines followed their model of not serving small cities I think the economic impact of service denial would greatly outweigh whatever savings they bring with their fare structures. Not to mention the detriment to real international service

 

[DLFlyer31]

General question on these slot exemptions --

Why is DCA so special? LGA doesn't get new 1500 mile exemptions. If you want to fly further, you go to JFK.

DAL doesn't get new Wright Amendment exemptions. If you want to fly further, you go to DFW.

When you're talking about flying from Washington, DC to Australia, what difference does it make whether you fly out of IAD or DCA on a trip that is an entire day long in each direction?

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out why DCA is special. It's the closest and most convenient airport to our nation's capitol. Every congressman wants to have nonstop access to DCA and since Congress has a say over increasing slots at DCA, this is what happens.


I agree with others who have said that US's precarious financial position may have played a factor. The DOT has already been burned twice by giving out slots to carriers with a grim future. They gave slots to TWA and National about four years ago. Both carriers went BK and the DOT had to go through another allocation process. These special beyond-perimeter slots are non-transferable so AA wasn't able to pick them up.

I more or less agree with the DOT's allocation. The only things I would have done differently are give the DCA-LAX route to AA and take of the two allocations from FRNT and give it to UA for DCA-SFO. I think SFO having a nonstop to DCA is more important than giving FRNT 3x daily DCA-DEN service. But that's just me....

 

[Cosmo]

General question on these slot exemptions --

Why is DCA so special? LGA doesn't get new 1500 mile exemptions. If you want to fly further, you go to JFK.

DAL doesn't get new Wright Amendment exemptions. If you want to fly further, you go to DFW.

When you're talking about flying from Washington, DC to Australia, what difference does it make whether you fly out of IAD or DCA on a trip that is an entire day long in each direction?

I believe the reason is that DCA and IAD are owned by the Federal government, and they are the only two civilian airports in the country that can claim that "honor". While the two airports are managed by a locally-run airport authority, Congress retains residual ownership rights which Congress, as the national law-making body, and in its infinite wisdom, interprets largely as it sees fit. Thus, when there is enough Congressional demand for additional slots, somehow they magically appear out of thin air in the next FAA reauthorization bill.

And call me cynical, but I believe that it's no coincidence that AS, with the support of the powerful Alaska Senators and Congressman, received two more round trips in this allocation of slots. The same holds true for HP's award of another round trip to PHX, located in the state represented by Senator McCain. I have no real proof of these potential political quid-pro-quos, but it's JMHO.

 

[ITRADE]

Dont you think that all the negitive press the Dave puts out daily that we are finished has something to do with all this. If the ones awarding the routes take Daves threats that we will be finished by July, why bother and give them to a airline that can do the job. Maybe we could add more passengers on the Titanic and possibly a stop in the Bahama's. Dave needs to quit complaining and work on getting this airline out of trouble. Just do it

Well, consider what US Airways employees wrote when encouraged by a poster to submit a letter of support to the DOT:

Autofixer wrote:

Isn't it management's job to obtain the slots??? Are they not paid the big bucks to lobby for the exemptions? I thought that is why HQ was in Arlington?

golden1 wrote:

Why do 'THEIR JOBS'?

they make the big bucks!!

I does my time, gets my check,and pray's for a buyout!!!!

CCYmessage : DO IT YOURSELF!

Unit4clt wrote:

Why should the employees lobby for additional slots if this company is going to sell assets, slots, gates, hub, and/or express division????

Congrats troops.

 

[Cosmo]

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out why DCA is special. It's the closest and most convenient airport to our nation's capitol. Every congressman wants to have nonstop access to DCA and since Congress has a say over increasing slots at DCA, this is what happens.

Actually, the highlighted words are really too broad. It should read: "It's the closest and most convenient airport to the politicians on Capitol Hill."

I more or less agree with the DOT's allocation. The only things I would have done differently are give the DCA-LAX route to AA and take of the two allocations from FRNT and give it to UA for DCA-SFO. I think SFO having a nonstop to DCA is more important than giving FRNT 3x daily DCA-DEN service. But that's just me....

I agree with your suggested revisions to the slot allocation.

 

[USFlyer]

Thank you.

US didn't deserve any beyond permiter slots. You're already by far the largest carrier at DCA.

US is the largest carrier as it has invested heavily in DCA over the years. I agree with US management on this one -- they are being punished for building up the airport.

Also, someone mentioned DCA-CHO was a possible in-perimeter route. I think this person meant DCA-CHA.

 

[whlinder]

Thank you.

US didn't deserve any beyond permiter slots. You're already by far the largest carrier at DCA.

US is the largest carrier as it has invested heavily in DCA over the years. I agree with US management on this one -- they are being punished for building up the airport.

Also, someone mentioned DCA-CHO was a possible in-perimeter route. I think this person meant DCA-CHA.

No, they're being punished because US is not a competitor, its a monopoly-lover.

 

[ITRADE]

Thank you.

US didn't deserve any beyond permiter slots. You're already by far the largest carrier at DCA.

US is the largest carrier as it has invested heavily in DCA over the years. I agree with US management on this one -- they are being punished for building up the airport.

Also, someone mentioned DCA-CHO was a possible in-perimeter route. I think this person meant DCA-CHA.

No, they're being punished because US is not a competitor, its a monopoly-lover.

This of course explains why DL has gotten slots in the past...

 

[USFlyer]

US charges what the market will bear. If the price is too high, choose another carrier. Also, you can hardly say US's monopoly has served it well ... it's not like it's a money grubbing organization. Just look at the losses over the years.

 

[USFlyer]

Also, for what it's worth, AS, UA, DL, etc. are hardly low fare carriers.

 

[Ch. 12]

General question on these slot exemptions --

Why is DCA so special? LGA doesn't get new 1500 mile exemptions. If you want to fly further, you go to JFK.

DAL doesn't get new Wright Amendment exemptions. If you want to fly further, you go to DFW.

When you're talking about flying from Washington, DC to Australia, what difference does it make whether you fly out of IAD or DCA on a trip that is an entire day long in each direction?

Looking at the common denominator, I would say that it has something to do with the carrier that has the most powerful lobbyists. The same airline that aided (along with Braniff and the city of Ft Worth) in the creation of the Wright Amendment to drive traffic to its DFW hub. And the same carrier that vigorously defends it to this day (reference the demise of Legend Airlines). That same carrier just happens to have hubs at JFK and DFW, both airports that benefit from perimeter restrictions at competing airports. The same carrier that happens to have little non-hub traffic out of BWI, IAD, or DCA. What little non-hub traffic they have is out of DCA, so why fight a DCA perimeter extension?

I'm not one to go for conspiracy theories, but the wrighting (pun intended) is on the wall with this case.

 

[Fubijaakr]

This can also be viewed as a vote of no confidence of U continuing as a going concern.

BINGO!

 

[whlinder]

AS recently re-did their entire fare structure, eliminated Sat. night stays in most cases and lowered their unrestricted fares.

The criteria for slots were basically this:
1) new entrant/little service to DCA
2) Create new nonstop and 1-stop connecting opportunities from western cities to DCA
3) Competitive carrier to stimulate the route.

Originally, the slots went to:
HP 2x PHX, 1x LAS
N7 1x LAS
F9 1x DEN
TW 1x LAX

Originally, HP fit all 3, F9 fit 1/3 and had a some connections, and N7/TW fit 1/3.

TW was bought/merged/whatever depending on where you're from by AA, slot did not transfer, back to the DOT, who picked AS 1x SEA. AS fits all 3 for SEA.

N7 died, slot back to DOT, DOT picked DL 1x SLC. DL fits #2, lots of connections.

More slots passed, DOT has 6 to give out, they pick.
AS 1x SEA fits all 3
AS 1x LAX fit 1/3 and a little bit of 2
HP 1x PHX, all 3
F9 2x DEN, all 3 now with their ZK codeshare
UA 1X DEN, fits #2.

So now DCA beyond perimeter we have
AS 2x SEA, fits all 3
HP 3x PHX, fits all 3
HP 1X LAS, fits all 3
AS 1x SEA, fits 1/3 and a little bit 2
F9 3X DEN, fits all 3
DL 1x SLC, fits 2
UA 1x DEN, fits 2

US to SFO would fit 2 as well, but they fit criteria #1 a lot worse than UA and DL. Since US is the biggest carrier at DCA, and the legislation was to give out slots to carriers with limited/no access to DCA, they lost out.

Would I have allocated 12 slots that way? Probably not. 3x to PHX is a little much when LAX has 1 and SFO has none. But had US been given LAX, you think they would force AA/UA to re-think their fares on the route? Ha! But with AS, you've got lower unrestricted fares with 1-day stays instead of Sat. night stays. That is what the legislation was trying to promote.

The way the legislation was written was pretty much followed. Other airlines will end up providing more benefit to consumers than US ever would had they been given a slot.

 

[AP Tech]

Just maybe Dave has pissed off the politicians in DC, as he has the politicians of many other cities. He is already complaining on the weekly phone message about how unfair it was.........another vote of "No Confidence" for Dave and his "going foward plan"?

 

[shaka]

I have no idea why anyone on this board is surprised about the allocations given to Dave. Dave has pissed off every major politician in the state of PA. Do you think anyone is going to go to lobby the DOT on his behalf?? DCA was told to bring new entrants into the market so that the consumer can fly in and out of the nations capital without paying these outrageous fares that US Air offers. In my opinion they were very successful in accomplishing that goal with their slot awards.

Dave needs to focus on getting his airline back on its feet and stop whining. This guy is like the spoiled kid who goes ballistic if he doesn't get his way. I truly believe had he dealt with the politicians in Pennsylvania in a different manner he would have senior politicians fighting alot harder for him in DC. I think Dave and US Air need a major reality check!!