Early out for M & R Sept. 4-Sept 25

[AV1]

In other words you would have been better off had you held on to your pay and benefits till they liguidated, sooner rather than later , because instead of working for reduced wages as the end was dragged out over years you could have spent those years building back up to top pay at a survivor? In the end the guys who were laid off first made out better.

Yes sir.

 

[AA89]

As I said before, nothing but good things to say about AA mechs. If your house burnt down, you decided to rebuild it yourself, but someone came along and said they will build it for you, provided promises after promises, etc. You take the offer. The builder after eleven years now decides to burn down your house. Now, your eleven years older, your too old to rebuild and basically your sh#t out of luck. The pension sure doesn't help, because we have none. Are you better off by having the eleven years to live in it and tossed out or should you have started to rebuild on your own way back eleven years ago and still have a home. Just saying American did not do any favors for the ex-TW mechs. If they would have jettisoned it years ago, they would have been better off by working for a more reputable company that desires their skills. As I said, many mechanics who were laid off now are at Southwest with eleven years seniority. You pick, where would you like to be.

Ok my friend, good analogy with the burned house and I fully understand being too old to start over now. I it is clear that your expectations weren't met when AA and TWA merged.

You didn't answer my question as to how you would have handled the seniority issue and you say that those that were laid off in the beginning are better off now. I wonder A) How many guys were able to retire from AA in the past 11 years with more than they would have had TWA liquidated back then. How many guys didn't follow the path that you and Bob assume everyone was able to. That is, a better future at one of the few airlines that hasn't gone through a bankruptcy, merger, or both since 2000. My guess is that there aren't very many guys doing any better.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ok my friend, good analogy with the burned house and I fully understand being too old to start over now. I it is clear that your expectations weren't met when AA and TWA merged.

You didn't answer my question as to how you would have handled the seniority issue and you say that those that were laid off in the beginning are better off now. I wonder A) How many guys were able to retire from AA in the past 11 years with more than they would have had TWA liquidated back then. How many guys didn't follow the path that you and Bob assume everyone was able to. That is, a better future at one of the few airlines that hasn't gone through a bankruptcy, merger, or both since 2000. My guess is that there aren't very many guys doing any better.

UAL, Delta and USAIR all went through BK and offer higher pay, better benefits, better workrules, more vacation, more Holidays at a lot higher pay, more sick time and more IOD. So if AA had closed their doors 9 years ago most of us would probably be at either one of those carriers or one of the few that didnt go BK, but either way we would be making more than we are/will with AA. In fact the biggest threat to their wages is not foreign maintenance , its American (Airlines) maintenance.

 

[Overspeed]

UAL, Delta and USAIR all went through BK and offer higher pay, better benefits, better workrules, more vacation, more Holidays at a lot higher pay, more sick time and more IOD. So if AA had closed their doors 9 years ago most of us would probably be at either one of those carriers or one of the few that didnt go BK, but either way we would be making more than we are/will with AA. In fact the biggest threat to their wages is not foreign maintenance , its American (Airlines) maintenance.

So you are of the opinion AA should have filed BK and then outsourced overhaul about 9 years ago so you could have gotten your higher line premium and geo pay. Gee that's swell Bob. You are coming out of the closet little by little and your disregard for overhaul.

AA is a threat on labor costs? Hardly, DL is going down to MX now and will have wide bodies in there by 2014. I think are guys make a bit more than mechanics in MX.

 

[Rogallo]

Starting tomorrow a breakdown for each station/title group will be on the Early Out page of jet net (the same place to go and sign up for EO).

Fraternally,

Don V

Hey Don,

It's tomorrow. Have they posted the breakdown by station on jetnet yet?

 

[AA89]

UAL, Delta and USAIR all went through BK and offer higher pay, better benefits, better workrules, more vacation, more Holidays at a lot higher pay, more sick time and more IOD. So if AA had closed their doors 9 years ago most of us would probably be at either one of those carriers or one of the few that didnt go BK, but either way we would be making more than we are/will with AA. In fact the biggest threat to their wages is not foreign maintenance , its American (Airlines) maintenance.

USAir has all that? And those airlines employ the same or more mechanics that they did in 2000? Or have enough left to make room for the TWA guys? For those that WOULD HAVE been lucky enough to get hired by another airline, and we all know they wouldn't even if they tried, I'm sure you have crunched all the numbers to calculate starting over at the bottom, time spent on the street during a layoff, and the fact that they now would be in exactly the same spot on the respective seniority list at that new airline, the bottom and facing a layoff in a BK or merger.Its a simple question I asked him so now I will ask you. How would you have handled the seniority list and not pissed off one group or the other who would be calling foul right now?

 

[Hopeful]

He still keeps saying "protected"!!! We gave that away, nobody has system protection anymore, he should know, he helped make sure of it.

The "protected" status are those who will receive the $12,500 special separation allowance if they were already system or station protected as of DOS.
Also the way I read it, they would not get the $10,000 either if they are not 45 and have 15 years of service.

See LOM #20.

 

[BigMac]

Here are the Early Out and Stand In Stead numbers as of this morning. As I stated yesterday they should be putting a station breakdown by title group on the Early Out and Stand in Stead’s on the sign up page on jet net-probably by close of business today.

Also I received a few calls questioning how the Earl Outs will be processed in comparison to the Stand in Stead’s. The company has committed that all Early Out and Stand in Stead participants will be allowed to leave the company, the only caveat is that they will be released (or allowed to exit) based on operational requirements.

Don V

All Early Out Total – 875

Protected – 811 Not protected – 64

SIS – 39

Title I -Early Out Total- 633 Protected: 591 Not Protected: 42

SIS- 26

Title II -Early Out Total- 159 Protected: 142 Not Protected:17

SIS- 5

Title V -Early Out Total- 83 Protected: 78 Not Protected: 5

SIS- 8

 

[BigMac]

Someone should go to the TWU 514 "Early Out Wrokshop" meetings on 9/13/2012 and video the participants.

We will have a video of those tha voted to place the final nail in the profession coffin. Having a video of the Local Union that advocated it along with a video of who voted yes to do this would be worthwhile.

Could be a great documentary video to have of such a significant union man sellout video on file.
Right there with the SCABS of Northwest Airlines.

I was unable to attend. If anyone on here was able to attend could you please give us the lowdown? Thank you

 

[AV1]

USAir has all that? And those airlines employ the same or more mechanics that they did in 2000? Or have enough left to make room for the TWA guys? For those that WOULD HAVE been lucky enough to get hired by another airline, and we all know they wouldn't even if they tried, I'm sure you have crunched all the numbers to calculate starting over at the bottom, time spent on the street during a layoff, and the fact that they now would be in exactly the same spot on the respective seniority list at that new airline, the bottom and facing a layoff in a BK or merger.Its a simple question I asked him so now I will ask you. How would you have handled the seniority list and not pissed off one group or the other who would be calling foul right now?

I don't know about everyone but I do know the majority of the mechanics that left the company when they were laid off are doing better than the ones who stayed until what is now the end. Yes, as the saying goes, there is life after American Airlines. Fed-Ex was hiring, Southwest was hiring, BNSF was basically giving away jobs to any mechanic that wanted to work there at the time. AT&T was hiring. I don't know how to merge the seniority lists any different than was. I never argue that point. My only point is that every now and then, the little voice comes out that says "They (Ex-TWA) mechanics are lucky they got to keep their job this long". Yeah right. The people that left are doing better than us. BNSF doesn't pay as much but surely has better benefits and retirement. I do know some who went to US Air. What is their retirement. I think it is considerably more than Americans or so I have been told. All I am saying is American basically screwed everyone who stayed. I could say a lot more about that but will hold my tongue. So, in fact, having a stable job now until retirement in the next how ever many years would have been better than getting screwed and not being able to start over eleven years later to answer your question.

 

[AA89]

I don't know about everyone but I do know the majority of the mechanics that left the company when they were laid off are doing better than the ones who stayed until what is now the end. Yes, as the saying goes, there is life after American Airlines. Fed-Ex was hiring, Southwest was hiring, BNSF was basically giving away jobs to any mechanic that wanted to work there at the time. AT&T was hiring. I don't know how to merge the seniority lists any different than was. I never argue that point. My only point is that every now and then, the little voice comes out that says "They (Ex-TWA) mechanics are lucky they got to keep their job this long". Yeah right. The people that left are doing better than us. BNSF doesn't pay as much but surely has better benefits and retirement. I do know some who went to US Air. What is their retirement. I think it is considerably more than Americans or so I have been told. All I am saying is American basically screwed everyone who stayed. I could say a lot more about that but will hold my tongue. So, in fact, having a stable job now until retirement in the next how ever many years would have been better than getting screwed and not being able to start over eleven years later to answer your question.

Thanks for the answer. I guess even AA guys would agree with your last sentence.

 

[BigMac]

“EarlyOut”Signups as of 9-16-2012 Breakdown by Station.
http://twu514.org/blog/2012/09/17/early-out-signups-as-of-9-16-2012/

 

[BigMac]

Here are the overall M&R and Stores numbers as of this morning- September 20, 2012. The Jetnet number and station breakdown will be updated tomorrow morning. Don V

Title I-Early Out Total- 870 SIS- 31

Title II-Early Out Total- 234 SIS- 7

Title V-Early Out Total- 122 SIS-10

 

[Bob Owens]

USAir has all that? And those airlines employ the same or more mechanics that they did in 2000?

USAIR is ahead of us in all those metrics.

And those airlines employ the same or more mechanics that they did in 2000?

WN and B6 do, the rest, including AA do not, or will not in six months. AA shed over a third of its mechanics since 2001

 

[FWAAA]

WN and B6 do, the rest, including AA do not, or will not in six months. AA shed over a third of its mechanics since 2001

Given a reduction in the AA fleet of about one-third since 2001, AA's reduction in mechanics and related seems proportional.

Over the same span, UA shed almost two-thirds of its mechanics and related since 2001 (13,106 M&R 2001 - 8,329 gone = 4,777 now, a 64% reduction). UA fleet went from 543 to 355, a 35% fleet reduction.