U
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
I am sure he provided the information to the ‘media’ but they chose to not publish it.
If you looked at the video, the retirement went from $2630 to $935 when handed over to the PBGC.
Apparently, the reporter did not even watch their own recording and probably ‘emotionalized’ it more than ‘reported’ it, as the media does so well.
IMHO, his retirement savings took a hit in addition, most likely because he listened to the professional financial analysts that preached ‘stay the course’ and ‘dollar cost averaging’.
That crap may have had value ‘historically’ but this does not work today.
Maybe he took advantage of using his retirement savings to ‘invest’ in property as that loophole was opened a few years ago for people to divest their retirement savings into property. Could be he bought one or more of those ‘infomercial’ scams to buy with no money down, FOREX, red light-green light stock market tools, or one of the other scams. Who knows?
I find it plausible as I would have received approx $2700 a month (level income-life certain) pre BK but now I am getting under $1000 under the PBGC after 23 years.
And No, I was not a pie-lot.
Well, I do not GAS about what you like and or do not like. The un-retirement plan is in full swing with many people today and it will only worsen.
That is a fact!
When you get there sunnyboy, give me a call!
B) xUT
Whoever this couple are, they should be grateful that they are able to find employment so quickly. I am also sure they are receiving social security checks. What is not mentioned here is whether ss is included or in addition to United retirement. I would suggest turning this into a positive and start contacting your congressmen and senators to require businesses to keep older american employed and regular wages and not Walmart wages. Overall, this will help the economy by keeping dollars flowing through the economy for goods and services.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
If you had watched the video, you would have seen that it is the ex-United pension going from $2630 to $935 per the documented PBGC paperwork shown in the video. They ‘may’ be getting SS but at 64 they are 1 year away from Medicare and UAL chopped the retiree medical benefits as well. If my memory serves me correctly, after 35years, the medical was free until medicare eligibility (65) but after BK, you can take another $200-$300 out of the PBGC stipend for monthly medical costs as UA dropped costs to 80% of total.
With insourcing/outsourcing/illegal immigrants/etc… getting a job is tough. If you looked at the video, he is driving an airport shuttle, probably making a little over minimum wage and probably equal to walmart wages.
Writing to ‘congress/senate/house/and or other agency’ will do little to turn the tide.
The bottom line is that you did not watch the video nor paid very much attention to the details. :down:
B) xUT
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 16,512
- Reaction score
- 5,865
There seems to be a lot of info missing in the article and accompanying video.
- Having been through the entire PBGC process thanks to US, I never received anything from the PBGC that looked like the "documented PBGC paperwork" shown. I did receive a multipage computer printout with all the calculations used to determine my PBGC benefit (it had my calculated US retirement benefit on it as well, but not presented as the document shown in the video).
- The PBGC benefit shown is well below the guaranteed benefit for anyone who starts drawing a PBGC benefit at 60, yet both retired "in their early 60's". PBGC generally pays the greater of the calculated benefit or the guarantee, whichever is larger.
- If both worked for UA and were vested in the retirement plan, they should both be entitled to a PBGC retirement benefit.
Jim
- Having been through the entire PBGC process thanks to US, I never received anything from the PBGC that looked like the "documented PBGC paperwork" shown. I did receive a multipage computer printout with all the calculations used to determine my PBGC benefit (it had my calculated US retirement benefit on it as well, but not presented as the document shown in the video).
- The PBGC benefit shown is well below the guaranteed benefit for anyone who starts drawing a PBGC benefit at 60, yet both retired "in their early 60's". PBGC generally pays the greater of the calculated benefit or the guarantee, whichever is larger.
- If both worked for UA and were vested in the retirement plan, they should both be entitled to a PBGC retirement benefit.
Jim
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Jim,
So you did not receive the same paperwork.
Surprising that your documentation is different?
Your are cognizant that not all plans are equal, or did you miss that bus?
Dude, you must be having a senior moment.
B) xUT
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 16,512
- Reaction score
- 5,865
No senior moment. I fully understand that all retirement plans are not equal, but the calculations that the PBGC makes follow the same format (although the numbers vary with the individual):
- What would an affected employee's retirement benefit be under the plan IF the employee had retired 36 months prior to plan termination? (I think this covers the variety of plans as well as the vesting period)
- What PBGC benefit group is the employee in? (Gp1, Gp2, Gp3, etc, with anyone over 53 when the plan was terminated being in Gp3 or above)
- How much money is in the plan to fund PBGC benefits? (Gp1 gets first dibs on the available money up to full calculated benefit under the plan per above, any left over goes to Gp2, any left over after Gp2 goes to Gp3, etc)
- What is the monthly benefit due the employee taking the above into account?
These steps produce the calculated benefit due from the PBGC under the terminated plan.
- What is the minimum monthly guaranteed PBGC benefit for the employee?
- Which is larger, the calculated benefit or the guaranteed benefit?
The final step determines the actual benefit due from the PBGC.
Like I said, the media left out a lot of info. You'll notice that I never said that the benefit as portrayed was wrong, just that a lot of questions remained unanswered.
I take it you've not been through the PBGC process based on your sarcasm. If one knows nothing about a subject, perhaps one should remain quiet....
Jim
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
[
Hey Jim,
How about a (deleted by moderator)
For your 'edification', I was walked out the door on 7/15/08 after 20+ years.
And since you have not been keeping up (must be a pie-lot thing N'Chit), I get my PBGC cheese 'NOW', so you can dispense with your hypotheticals.
My 'hypothetical' started this month.
I am somewhat cognizant of how I was screwed and quite aware of the perpetrators and the parts being played.
(deleted)
B) xUT
Hey Jim,
How about a (deleted by moderator)
For your 'edification', I was walked out the door on 7/15/08 after 20+ years.
And since you have not been keeping up (must be a pie-lot thing N'Chit), I get my PBGC cheese 'NOW', so you can dispense with your hypotheticals.
My 'hypothetical' started this month.
I am somewhat cognizant of how I was screwed and quite aware of the perpetrators and the parts being played.
(deleted)
B) xUT
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
No Jim, I do not have all the answers, but apparently, you think you do.
I have always liked and respected you but when you pull this out of your butt:
It put me over the edge as I know what ‘options’ the PBGC gave me and I know what I get every month under the ‘life-certain’ option.
B) xUT
North by Northwest
Veteran
Look, the bottom line here is...these people played by the rules and where CHEATED out of their pensions while the "system" allowed their pensions to pay for the pensions of "executive talent" responsible for bankrupting the airline (we mustn't leave out the tens of millions in bonuses paid out to that talent FOR BANKRUPTING the airline and dumping the pensions on the taxpayers).
Taxpayers in the richest nation on earth (USA..now run and operated by Corporate America.) should not be worried about working till they drop to retire when Europe, Japan and the rest of the damn world lives freely off of the money Americans pay for the Western world's defense...and they happily retire at 59 or 60 years of age.
People who VOTED for BUSH/ Reagan, and the present two Corporate dimwits McCain/ and Airhead are directly responsible. Ya just can't have it both ways...
Taxpayers in the richest nation on earth (USA..now run and operated by Corporate America.) should not be worried about working till they drop to retire when Europe, Japan and the rest of the damn world lives freely off of the money Americans pay for the Western world's defense...and they happily retire at 59 or 60 years of age.
People who VOTED for BUSH/ Reagan, and the present two Corporate dimwits McCain/ and Airhead are directly responsible. Ya just can't have it both ways...
Yes I do Jim.
I spent many hours emailing and sitting on the telephone with the PBGC over these discussions. There are two trains of thought on this and I lost due to the ‘level income life certain’ option was not part of the contract. The UAL M&R ‘contract’ is very specific as to what the benefit will be and that is how the PBGC made their ruling in my case. Possibly, you ‘pie-lots’ only have to contend with the maximum PBGC ceiling, as I do not know, I defer this information to you.
I saw this coming many years ago so I am living on my decision and have had no surprises.
-Emilio
Similar threads
- UAL_TECH
- United Airlines
