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Edward Snowden...N S A.....Wistleblower ! !

Could you imagine the reaction if the information leaked included the location of a CIA facility somewhere in the Middle East?

Imagine the outrage if it was attacked by terrorists and Americans died as a result of this leaked information.

We cannot choose what top secret information is ok to sell/leak.
NO! But we sure as balls can question what's classified as "Top Secret" Always remember Glenn the government works for us not the other way around. Secondly we shouldn't have a CIA base in the Middle East. Remember "Blowback" and the damage and wars it causes? No- Intervention solves many of these issues.
 
NO! But we sure as balls can question what's classified as "Top Secret" Always remember Glenn the government works for us not the other way around. Secondly we shouldn't have a CIA base in the Middle East. Remember "Blowback" and the damage and wars it causes? No- Intervention solves many of these issues.
I would much prefer to have a small, clandestine CIA post than an "Operation Enduring Freedom" or whatever someone decides to name the next nation building exercise.

It is people like Snowden that make that extremely dangerous for anyone to make happen.

On another note, don't you just love Rand Paul whipping up support to sue the government. Nothing like ginning up lots of money for lawyers and making some hay from this weasel's treasonous act.
 
So how exactly do you propose to to question what is Top Secret when you do not know what is Top Secret?
 
I think people on this thread are asking the wrong questions or asserting things in a fashion to further their own political views.

Events coming to light over the last few months in the form of the pressure on the free press, the IRS scandal, the NSA phone tapping and e-mail tracking as well as other items that have come to light seem to show a disturbing trend of the federal government bulldozing over the constitutional rights. With some of it going back at least 3 presidents. (Clinton, Bush, Obama)

With regard to recent events we have evidence/accusations pointing to the federal government possibly violating or attempting to subvert the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 10th and 14th amendments with questions about activities that may extend further into the constitutional protections.

Now as to the subject of the thread and the question of Snowden being guilty of treason, That seems to be a gray area. Is he guilty of violating a secret clearance agreement that he signed? Probably

Is he guilty of treason as defined by Article III section 3 of the constitution? I am not sure what he released would classify as "Levying war, adhearing to their enemies, or giving aid" Unless the "enemies" referred to are the American people.

If they do send him to trial on such a charge the government is going to have to be prepared to answer lots of questions about their own activities in the possible violations of the constitution also. I don't think you will see that.

Will be interesting to watch. So far I don't think either side has much of a leg to stand on, both appear to have violated part of the law.
 
Kerosenuser,


Etal...


The government's power grab, or abuse of power, started in the very early days.

Remember hearing about Shay's Rebellion?

It really got going in earnest during the administration of the (then divided...) nation's first Republican president, and has generally grown and accelerated exponentially since.

It is the nature of the beast.

Te beast seems to feed and thrive the most during administrations, and congresses, where those in control speak loudest about their belief in "small government", "getting the government out of the way", "the government is the problem", and the like. IOW, it gets worse, fastest, while the very people who get elected claiming they will end it are in power.

In my life, that has been the Republicans.

Talk a good game... And do the opposite.

Yes, "the buck stops here", as HST says, and these current "scandals" happened on Obama's watch. I say "Scandals" because The data mining and the monitoring of personal communications records, was started, in plain view, and bragged upon, by the previous administration. The tug of war between the press and national security have been going on, in plain view, since the beginning of civilizations, and certainly since the beginning of the US.

Does anyone actually believe that one man can even know what is going on at all levels of a behemoth like the federal government, much less direct it all?

The IRS abuses seem to have originated within the IRS.

The surveillance programs were, and are, authorized by congress. Why hasn't congress just shut them down? All it takes is a resolution and a vote.

Not giving anyone a pass. Some of these issues are real discussions that need to take place, and they are not Dem/Rep or Obama/??? Questions--except to the genius talking Ayres puppets on FauxNewsErtainment.

I have Republican voting friends, who think that they are conservatives, that claim loudly that "the government has a duty to protect life", and "i want my government to do whatever it takes to keep us safe", and "if you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. Until, that is, FauxNews explains that it is somehow different, and wrong, when a democratic president does the exact same thing.

It can be an abuse of power, or it can be necessary for safety, or it can be both. That is a legitimate question that we, as a country, should be having a real debate on. Actually, should have -- before passing the Patriot Act and building these huge data mining and analysis programs. In the wake of 9-11, most people, and especially most security conscious "conservative" Republican types, saw those things as necessary and good.

It is probably too late to unf**k it now.
 
I think people on this thread are asking the wrong questions or asserting things in a fashion to further their own political views.

Events coming to light over the last few months in the form of the pressure on the free press, the IRS scandal, the NSA phone tapping and e-mail tracking as well as other items that have come to light seem to show a disturbing trend of the federal government bulldozing over the constitutional rights. With some of it going back at least 3 presidents. (Clinton, Bush, Obama)

With regard to recent events we have evidence/accusations pointing to the federal government possibly violating or attempting to subvert the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 10th and 14th amendments with questions about activities that may extend further into the constitutional protections.

Now as to the subject of the thread and the question of Snowden being guilty of treason, That seems to be a gray area. Is he guilty of violating a secret clearance agreement that he signed? Probably

Is he guilty of treason as defined by Article III section 3 of the constitution? I am not sure what he released would classify as "Levying war, adhearing to their enemies, or giving aid" Unless the "enemies" referred to are the American people.

If they do send him to trial on such a charge the government is going to have to be prepared to answer lots of questions about their own activities in the possible violations of the constitution also. I don't think you will see that.

Will be interesting to watch. So far I don't think either side has much of a leg to stand on, both appear to have violated part of the law.

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

The US would love to have their hands on him to shut him up. This is a really complicated situation and putting him on the stand would probably cause more harm. So, what do they do with him?

He's in Hong Kong which has an extradition treaty with the US. I would not be surprised to see him in Shanghai, next. China does not have such a treaty with the US. I'm sure the Chinese would be interested in some of his info and would have him as their honored guest.

We'll see.
 
. I would not be surprised to see him in Shanghai, next. China does not have such a treaty with the US. I'm sure the Chinese would be interested in some of his info and would have him as their honored guest.

We'll see.
If he does that then there is no question about the "treason" charge" Since China would have zero interest in our domestic phone and e- mail tapping issues. Their interest in him would be the military side.
 
Not necessarily. China would probably take him regardless actually value. The US qiuld deny his relevance or threat regardless to mitigate the damage. China wouldmkove to have him so they can say they have a US spy and people like Dell and South will run with conspiracy theories. Seems like it would be a great PR coup for China.
 
I would much prefer to have a small, clandestine CIA post than an "Operation Enduring Freedom" or whatever someone decides to name the next nation building exercise.

It is people like Snowden that make that extremely dangerous for anyone to make happen.

On another note, don't you just love Rand Paul whipping up support to sue the government. Nothing like ginning up lots of money for lawyers and making some hay from this weasel's treasonous act.
I stand with Rand. This whole 4th Amendment issue needs to be placed before the Supreme Court and adjudicated now. To date Henrich Holder and The rest of the Neo Fascist Obama Administration have prevented this from happening by using various legal arguments that basically say the average citizen has no standing before the court. Talk about legal hocus Pocus. Snowden should be awarded the Civilian version of the Congressional Medal of Honor for his actions.
 
Could you imagine the reaction if the information leaked included the location of a CIA facility somewhere in the Middle East?

Imagine the outrage if it was attacked by terrorists and Americans died as a result of this leaked information.

We cannot choose what top secret information is ok to sell/leak.

Didn't hear a whimper when Rick Ames caused the deaths of ALL CIA Soviet block agents. Where was the outrage??

If a program is discovered that is violating Constitutional rights of citizens secretly, then it must be exposed....and those who put it together too.
 
You agree with a Paul. Stop the freaking presses. Call Ripply's. Color me surprised.
 
Not necessarily. China would probably take him regardless actually value. The US qiuld deny his relevance or threat regardless to mitigate the damage. China wouldmkove to have him so they can say they have a US spy and people like Dell and South will run with conspiracy theories. Seems like it would be a great PR coup for China.

I'd rather die a conspiracy theorist who doesn't trust his government than a bunch of hypocritical nitwits who believe it all like many here do.
 

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