bay of pigssignals said:
gulf of tonkin...
anytime the cia is involved someplace you have to expect this crap...
didnt obama send the cia to ukraine a few months ago... oh yea he did...
just one more reason not to blindly eat what they feed us
Edward Snowden...N S A.....Wistleblower ! !
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gulf of tonkin...
anytime the cia is involved someplace you have to expect this crap...
didnt obama send the cia to ukraine a few months ago... oh yea he did...
just one more reason not to blindly eat what they feed us
Ms Tree
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I do not necessarily disagree but I think there is one possible explanation. The area where 370 went down did not have any hot areas where people were watching. The Ukraine on the other hand has Russia invading another country. There is a good possibility that there were quite a few assets dedicated to watching what is going on over there such as AWACS and satellites. Whether that's the case or not I do not know but it could explain part of it.PHXConx said:
radar data is radar data regardless if someone is actively watching it...Ms Tree said:
it hasnt been THE ukraine since the fall of the soviet union 23 years ago..
As far as i know we dont have any awacs in place in ukraine, unless there is some in the black sea. which could be part of the answer, but i would figure when the pentagon says we dont know who fired the missile makes you think they would have said we watched it on awacs...
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/president-obama-pentagon-dont-know-shot-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh-17-ukraine.html
now of course the USA is saying that Russia is firing artillery its like they are throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks
until MH17 this was considered a regional dispute...And technically it still is, if it ends up that the Rebels did fire on that it and it was a mistake, while still a horrible act, its not really able to be compared to 911 or even terrorism... terrorism would be if they specifically targeted the aircraft knowing full well it was a civilian aircraft... im not trying to diminish the horrors of what happened to those innocent people. but at the same time to call the rebels who are fighting a civil war, saying they targetted the aircraft, or that the russians did, doesnt make much sense... why would they target a civilian aircraft? it does nothing for their cause, why would the russians for that matter?
remember Rahm Emanuel said it best... "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."
Ms Tree
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My understanding is that different radar applications have different capabilities of detection.
I did not know you were privy to the placements of military assets. I'm guessing you should probably not be posting this info on a public web site.
Perhaps they would say it or perhaps not. Depends on what info they want out in public.
I did not know you were privy to the placements of military assets. I'm guessing you should probably not be posting this info on a public web site.
Perhaps they would say it or perhaps not. Depends on what info they want out in public.
PHXConx said:
I doubt there was a spy satellite looking over the Indian Ocean but I guarantee they be looking all over the Ukraine.....
And your reference to gun camera and other views of bombing in the recent US engagements......and not jibing.......Don't suppose you saw satellite views and didn't know it?
There is an AWACS squadron in the UAE well within the 5000 mile ranges of an E-3 Sentry.....plus NATO AWACS in Germany ...it would be foolish to think they haven't been airborne monitoring this whole event since Ivan went in several months ago.
And you demand proof which would out existing technology and spying methods......don't hold your breath.
Glenn Quagmire
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Nice analysis Dude. I would bet we have facial recognition and names of the key players on that battlefield.delldude said:
Glenn Quagmire said:
LOL.....you're probably right. Log into facebook before attack....
Those comments someone made about the gun cameras and pictures of attacks on the news....after thinking about it, I remember something mentioned on the news with all the drone stuff and someone mentioned they were using drones during those attacks back then for photo recon. I too remember seeing the bomb trail on into the target then it seemed we were looking from a different angle.....had me wondering too.
BDA....battle damage assessment is a big thing....
you dont think we have satellite coverage of the south CHINA sea? or the indian ocean? thats battydelldude said:
I didnt say anything about recent us engagements i believe i said gulf war... and it wasnt satellite views, i took the film off the aircraft i know exactly what it was
and of course lets follow like sheep as usual i dont ask to see the proof id like my congress critter to see proof, but alas he isnt one of the of the 16 out of 535 that are allowed to see this stuff.. this is not what the founders meant by congressional oversight..
there are also cia operating in ukraine... and of course they have never done anything shady to start a deeper conflict... never would they shoot a plane out of the sky... and blame some one else that doesnt sound like anything the cia would do they are all eagle scouts
Russia has more right to be involved than we do, whats our skin in the game? its only their border... ukraine is in a civil war... this is no different than us getting in civil wars in this hemisphere... why do we have more right to institute the a monroe doctrine like policy here, but russia doing it on their border well cant let that happen... says who? Obama? give him some more red paint to draw more lines for the world to ignore...
i want to remind every body sanctions almost never work, and usually cause wars, not prevent them... this isnt some former satellite country like iran or iraq, or egypt.. this is a world power, no they arent the cold war power they were, but they are still a force to be reckoned with... i cant wait till a future president wants to act on a foreign policy decision, and the world puts sanctions on us...
signals
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Welcome to the forum of the blind sheep.PHXConx said:
signals
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People have SELECTIVE enforcement of rules and morals. What President Nixon was accused of as a prerequisite of his impeachment was done by all his predecessors. Yet Nixon was the scapegoat.PHXConx said:
When that filthy wall was torn down in Germany, many saw it as a liberation and victory to Russian politics. In reality it was the premonition of what Krushchev wanted to bring to the world's attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-banging_incident
Fact of the matter is that we are a Capitalistic society and Corporate America will do anything to make a profit somewhere in the world. That is why after any war between nations a McDonalds comes into view!
Ms Tree said:
The nice thing about this malaysian flight over the last malaysian flight is that they didnt shut off the transponder
ATC radars (radio detection and ranging) work with two different systems primary radar , which most countries are moving away from because of its extremely limited nature does this.it does what you think classically what radar does you send a beam of energy out and it paints a target reflects back and and you know there is an object in the air, you dont know if its a plane, a flock of birds a balloon anything. if it reflects radio waves it will detect it, it doesnt tell you the altitude, it doesnt tell you the speed of the aircraft it just says at this moment there is something over there.
secondary radar works by sending a pulse of information to the transponder of the aircraft, telling it to respond back the altitude the speed, the heading... etc mh17 didnt shut off the transponder like mh 370 did so we do have a wealth of more info to go by,
im not saying its impossible to pick up a return from a missile going at mach three from primary data, it would look like fast moving clutter... but with a sweep time usual of 360 degrees in 2 seconds, estimated flight time of missile 10 seconds... depending on distance from radar site to target, it would only be useful to look at after the fact. to prove presence it would still be very difficult to be sure with extreme speed of missile, and reduced radar cross section
military ground/sea radars use additional systems, much more ability to detect and destroy targets. aircraft use pulse-doppler systems "look down shoot down" capabilities so you can point a radar down and not get nothing but ground clutter... its kind of technical to get into the theroy but like weather doppler radar is used to track rain by detecting the movement of the droplets doppler radar in a military application does the same way
pulse doppler systems in the most simplest terms combine the primary systems of primary radar (paint a target) and doppler radar, detecting the movement of an object...it says i can see a target they are over there doppler radar says i can see the movement go here...
we had a couple destroyers from the 6th fleet rotate in and out of the black sea, but the last one i heard of is currently in the med vella gulf was in the black sea as part of nato training drills early this month but read a news report saying she may be called to assist the libyan embassy evacuation and was nearby... so im not sure
we have had a couple Aegis destroyers in the black sea i dont know if we had any there at the time of the shoot down, if their radar was up, and "looking" in that direction maybe they would have detected something...
but most likely any military reconnaissance aircraft in the area would have noticed the high power radar turn on not actually detect the actual missile launch and see where it came from ... oh and dont worry your little head off all thats from either navy.mil or various news sources so im not giving out state secrets 🙄
whats funny is that the military (pentagon) still says that they dont know who shot down the aircraft, they still dont know which missile system shot down the aircraft...but yet the press and sheep continue to spread rumors... a buk may have been seen, by the ukrainian army... they wouldnt lie... lol ukraine says they have evidence of radio intercepts nothing substantial unless you mean unidentified men speaking in ukrainian... my favorite is the tv that puts up the graphic of "separatists" with the quotes, thats not propaganda not in a bit...so they put in your mind this is what was said and these are the people that said them, even though the pictures they show are masked just to make you feel like its true.. and scary its a brilliant strategy, what used to be reserved for state propaganda consumption...
another thing i enjoyed that puts doubt in my eyes... is the buk missile system that ukrainians said is the one that shot down the aircraft... was on a trailer pulled by a truck... is it even operational? a buk is a self propelled system it has tracks like a tank, yet this one was on a trailer... most laymens wouldnt even notice... hell a retired navy captain mentioned that on MSNBC, of course he was blown off went to commercial and never seen again lol
i just think that automatically trusting that the government tells us is true. is a mistake we learned thanks to people like snowden that that routinely ends up ending badly for us and causes us several decades of fixing our mistakes and how it always has a tendency to come back and bite us in the asssignals said:
this whole ukraine mess from the riots in the street to the snipers taking out both sides of the dispute, to keep them both at each others throats to the to the "coup" and then a new government put in not elected by the people of ukraine, to later elections that didnt include whole areas of ukraine... mostly the eastern areas under the dispute... it SCREAMS of a CIA operation i keep thinking its the Shah of Iran all over again. And that worked out so well for us...
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delldude said:
Even if there was nothing going on in the Ukraine that area of the world would get more attention than say the South China Sea or the Indian Ocean. For the rather obvious reason that there are still hundreds of ICBM's that can get re-targeted along with strategic bombers than be launched against the USA. Can't say that about the South China Sea or Indian Ocean.
With a low grade civil war going on I'm sure surveillance of that region, and not just by us, increased dramatically.
