Eject Eject Eject!

[KCFlyer]

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On 9/23/2002 8:51:23 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

KCFlyer,
"Yo", my PC pal,
Whats up with Hooters air in "KCI"
Are you planning to buy any stock, or just check out the "operation" ?????????
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif']

NH/BB's
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Haven't been out to check out the operation, but I will keep you abreast of details as they become more fully developed.

 

[kirkpatrick]

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On 9/23/2002 6:54:34 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Kirkpatrick;
The question is, Do "market forces" have a real influence or it the "market" fixed by an old boy network? The problem is that those who determine CEO pay apparently have a greater interest in seeing CEO pay go up than getting the most manager for the buck.
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Just as behind every contract is a company that agreed to it, behind every CEO salary is a board of directors (or whatever) that agreed to pay it. Although it's easy to blame good ol' boy networks, I don't thing any board of directors sees it's in their best interest to pay salaries which cannot be sustained by profits.

Many would say $200/hr pilots or $60/hr flight attendants (or plumbers, for that matter) are overpaid. Fine. But I'd rather see things seek their own level than be dictated by government mandate.

MK

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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Don't you think AA would love to have been able to walk away from the F100's for just pennies on the dollar?
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Sure, except that they are wholly owned and pretty much unencumbered... There's nothing to walk away from.

MD80s and A300s are another story, since most of the Airbi are leased, and more than half of the MD80 fleet is leased.

 

[KCFlyer]

Okay Eric, I stand corrected on the F100's. But don't you think AA would find it easier to compete with bankrupt airlines who are running debt free and have their labor costs cut by filing Chapter 11 themselves? That's why I say that some of these carriers should be allowed to fail. Let the other airlines heal themselves by picking up the pieces and traffic that is made available, and make bankruptcy a less appealing alternative.

 

[Bob Owens]

Kirkpatrick;
I agree that the government should not be mandating wages. Unfortuneately that is exactly what they are doing to Airline workers. The ATSB is the Aviation equivelent of the IMF. The ATSB was supposed to stabilize the industry, in order to ensure that the public continues to enjoy access to air transportation. Somewhere along the lines the 7%ROI was thrown in, 7% for an airline in a recession is completely unreasonable and is higher than most busnisses are seeing at the moment.
Directors who are CEOs have an interst in seeing CEO pay go up because it makes it easier to justify their own extravagent compensation. Similar to the way mechanics across the industry were glad to see the mechanics at NWA get real wages partially restored. In light of all thats been revealed over the last year its hard to beleive that anyone could still beleive that executive compensation is market driven or the Boards are an adequate safeguard from excess.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

KCFlyer,
That was a GREAT [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif'] Reply !!!!
Your as sharp as ever.

NH/BB's

Ps. Might you know where my favorite combatant (AirplaneNut) disappeared to ???

 

[planemech669]

[P][BR]Bob,[BR][BR]You mentioned the mechanics at NWA getting industryleading wages. A question. Would you or would you not pay to keep your backbone in proper shape to support the rest of your operation? Every single one of the airline CEOs today would say that Labor is their largest expenditure in their operation. Now, another question. How many airlines do you think could run without a CEO? Finally, how many airlines do you think could run without mechanics, pilots, flight attendnts, or any of the other multitude of workgroups that are needed?[/P]
[P]Unfortunately, it seems that one thing gets pushed to the back when hard times hit an industry the way that the airlines have been hit. The people that really make it work. Wallstreet however, cares little about quality and everything about quantity. It's the nature of the beast because ultimatly people don't buy stocks and bonds becuase they thiink that a company has good people, they buy in the hopes of making money and that is the only thing that matters. If every CEO decided today that they have had enough and quit, there would be a hiccup. Yet if every mechanic decided that it just wasn't worth the hasslle and responsiibility to be forgotten, if every pilot decided that being away from home and family was too much of a price to pay just to fly, if every flight attendant decide that they can't take one more irrate customer, that would be the end. [/P]

 

[Bob Owens]

planemech669;
OK, What was the question?

 

[KCFlyer]

NHBB - Bad news....the Hooters deal went bust. See the thread under regional airlines for details.

 

[flaptrack]

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On 9/23/2002 6:58:28 AM KCFlyer wrote:

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On 9/22/2002 12:13:03 PM G4G5 wrote:

Ask the folks at IBM if Gerstner was over paid? Or Welsch @ GE?
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I beleive some are begining to think that Welch is being paid a bit too much to stay at home... And how many IBMer's did Gerstner jettison when he first took over? Bottom line, NO CEO is worth several hundred times what their labor force is. You're right, G4G5, for the most part, a CEO will earn less at an airline than at a failing telecom. I'm all for pay for performance, but how about extending the vesting period for CEO stock options out for several more years (sort of a "retirement fund" if you will)? As it stands, too many are making short term decisions that positively effect the stock price, but in the long run, hurt the company. Best example I can think of it Bill Esrey, CEO of Sprint - put Sprint on the market to sell to Worldcom, put a tiny little line in the shareholder vote that if the merger is approved, all top managment is immediately vested in their stock options, and then rake it in. Most execs sold their stock at $60 a share, while the stock in the employees 401K accounts (made up with "company matching stock" - can't be moved as long as the employee works there) is $9 a share. Sounds a little like U, doesn't it?

Bring in a high school dropout with a decent amount of common sense and a passion for an industry, pay them a couple hundred thousand a year, and I guarantee that they'd make Jack Welch and Lou Gerstner look like rank amatuers, despite the Harvard MBA's.
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Well put KCFlyer,

Longer term is the key. Maybe 4 years? (like a stint in the military) BTW,my wife worked for SPRINT and she is now on the street too. Hmmmm? Coincidence?